Morgan, remember this is a dynamic game. Just because you have your guild as your "family" doesn't mean everyone else on the server doesn't matter anymore.
As Dawnseeker has stated:
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Dawnseeker, for this idea to work, you would have to lessen the amount of guild cities. Having 5 level3 and 4 level4 cities (which are the most important cities to hold) is just like giving one of each city to all the major guilds of each realm. There's no difference from what they have now.
To truly elicit a change:
- Cut down the number of people in each guild. Don't raise this limit even if the guild levels up.
- Instead of increasing the number of people when a guild level's up, instead, increase the amount of contribution each member can provide by providing a multiplier.
- For example, a level 3 guild gets +25% contribution multiplier. level 4 guild gets +50% contributions, and so on.
This ensures that even with a limited number of people per guild, the top tier guild cities are feasible to reach.
Pair this off with Server-side Realm Wars, and you will have intense, daily guild war action.
There will be no "number 1 guild that will control all cities" since only 30 people can fit in a guild (hypothetical scenario).
The clash of big egos and the limited number of players to attack/defend ensure that even if all the top players band together, they wouldn't be able to control multiple guild cities without exerting a lot of effort.
I don't see how one could even consider capping the guildmembership of existing guilds to 30. These are real people playing who actually have become attached to other real people.
Not to mention the investments they have already made. Would they go with them? Would they be taken away from the existing guildfunds?
Obviously everyone on the server matters, so another solution should be found.
Just because you don't experience a guild as a family, doesn't mean the rest of the server should suffer either.
Your argument slices both ways.
Let us bin the idea of capping existing guilds and find one that would satisfy both parties.
Adding new content rather then changing what is there, is dynamic.
Guild Warfare changes might include collapsing the bonuses so that more guilds could acquire them. For example, instead of needing to hold 5 cities to get 100% increase reputation gain, you would only be able to hold a single level 3 city, and that city would give you 100%. Same with 1 level 4 city to get 150% more coins. Just possibilities.
Dawnseeker this would still mean that less guilds will take the buffs overall since there are only 3 lvl 4 cities. Or do you propose to have more cities of each level?
This still makes the current system more attractive since at least now 5 guilds can hold them, where as in your example only 3 guilds could hold them.
It would also mean we would have to spend more guildfunds for the bidding which at the moment we desperately need to aquire a higher level guild (which takes more then a week to reach).
I understand that it would mean some would invest more and Tynon would make more money due to gemcosts to reach them.
I doubt those on server 1-10 would be happy with a change that puts us at such a disadvantage overall.
If this option is adopted I suspect many will quit.
I vote against this idea and refer to previous posts for additional content :).
Thats exactly my issue with the idea of limiting guilds cities. in the long run it would make for even less competition, and cut the smaller guilds out totally. At least as it is now, if a top guild holds all cities in the realm, and smaller guilds challenge for all of them, there's a chance that one of them may get lucky and get some buffage going on for a day. Limiting cities as such will force them to fight heads up eliminating their chances of capture.
I think most people agree that changing Guild Warfare would not be the route. ofc there are the few who think otherwise, and as I said before that's fine. Everyone is entitled their opinion. Let me suggest a similar, but different approach to what some of the folks here have mentioned.
Instead of "cross realm guild warfare", How about adding some elite NPCs, leaving what is in place there, and make REALM WARS instead of one guild fighting another guild. Have it where every guild in forest realm would challenge every guild water realm for example. What this would do is put the smaller guilds in each realm in a situation where they can get some of the action, and get rewarded for it with buffs of their own. I think this would be a better way to increase competition, and if you think about it, it would do it on a much grander scale. Imagine some of the battles with 200-300 people on EACH side facing off. Not only would it help the smaller guilds, but the battles themselves would be outright epic. It would also put the top guild in a realm in a situation where they had to help the little guilds if they wanted any type of reward for it. It promotes teamwork on a larger scale, and would have different strategy than the current system, seeing as there is a lot more to work with as far as players at all power levels. More possibilities in battle = better competition. It's the only way i can see that we can work out something that not only helps the smaller guilds, but also increases competitiveness for everyone. Thoughts?
I like it. maybe one day a week it can be Realm Warfare. The only problem is getting the people in multiple guilds work together. Another possibility would be to allow more that one Guild to attack one city, but then there has to be a way to split the buffs.
The problem is not with GW but with the guilds themselves. As long as there are super gilds there will be no competition. If there was a way to limit the number of high ranked players that could be in a guild then it would force the formation of several guilds that could compete against each other.
I think vill has a very good idea. Not sure if the devs will like it. I personally want new content. I think changing Gwf under the proposed manner will only force the server to die faster. Yes in the end game there will be one guild left. But do you want server 1 to be in end game in the next 30-60 days
or do you want server 1 to start hitting end game in say 6-9 months. I prefer it last 6-9 months more at least. Which will require more content from the devs.
I think we could do something with GWF that improves upon what we already have with out forcing the uber guild situation to occur in the next 30-60 days. And that some changes could be made to get these smaller guilds which are dying off or are nearly dead to become more of a factor in the game and not just participating in GWF every day knowing its going to be a 1 round loss just to get rewards.
I think alot of people have had some interesting ideas. But each idea alone is not enough. Even the ideas I hate, like limiting guilds to 30 people, have merit . I think we are all on the right track and are getting close to a solution that
1. The majority of people will like
2. Not take away from the guilds who already own buffs
3. Increase competition throughout the server
4. get the smaller guilds more active in the game
5.extend the life of the sever
SO with that said
Matt's Epic Plan is coming........
I agree. I have come to appreciate what we have on server one. If it totally changes overnight I won't be here any longer. I know that Tynon hasn't committed to anything yet, but the fact they are fishing says enough.
1. An EXTRA (Elite, Bonus, Weekly, Top 50) Server wide Arena is needed, imo.
2. An EXTRA Server Wide GW with SEPERATE cities at the server level would be a good improvement.
3. Adjusting certain issues that are happening daily is also needed.
Merging all Realms is not good. This will completely destroy server 1-10. People started this game with at least the idea that they wanted to spend money to be the best in their realm, not the server. It would be changing the whole dynamic for people and in my opinion isn't the way to go. It's already tough enough to keep peace in a realm arena, I cannot imagine if all we had was a server Arena where the top 10 players got everything, lower players nothing. These idea's have to be EXTRA, not replacements. I wouldn't buy a Ford Mustang if it was going to magically morf into a Honda Civic 4 months later, and I wouldn't want to keep it if it happened without my consent.
also a star/medal cooldown would be awesome
GW's realm wide NO smaller guilds would never stand a chance. My suggestion stop dropping our power levels and making the heroics 5 times harder to beat now. Fix what is wrong before you make new problems. Love the new stuff don't get me wrong. On Server 1 we have to refresh to get our GW reward after each battle. Gems from sailing need refresh to collect. heroics pfft impossible now. Every night I write down my power the next day at log in it is lower. So fix what we have now before adding new problems. Just my 2 cents.
Matt's Epic Plan
SO I am going to try to incorporate as many things as I can to create a plan to change GWF for the better on server 1-10. My hope is that this plan does the following
1. Add competition, so GWF is not a monotonous task every guild does just for the rewards
2. Allow smaller guilds to actually get some rewards so that maybe their players can grow
3. Make it so what guilds have already accomplished is not taken away for them just to make a change
4. Not change the limits to how many people can be in a guild
Now the idea is complicated, SO bear with me. I will break it all down into parts. Each part is crucial and without one part the whole idea may fall apart. I will also do my best to explain why I incorporated each part.
Part 1. FIX GWF
We all know there are bugs and glitches in it. Before any change is implemented, the bugs and glitches need fixed, Because no one deserves to win or lose a city over a glitch
Part 2. Remove the Science Museum
I do not mean remove techs. I want it so that the techs are unlocked when you increase guild levels. SO a level 4 guild will have what is currently offered by level 4 Science Museum. This change eliminates the countless guild funds that are used on Science Museum and frees them up for more important things.
Part 3. Add a guild upkeep.
yes i know this will not be popular. But when taken in as part of the whole idea it is crucial. This will prevent guilds full of alts from having too much impact on bidding. Yes alts are a TOS violation, So what? we all know they are there. This also encourages activity in a guild. The upkeep should be based upon the maximum level of players allowed in the guild. and should be 5% of the that numbers minimum investments. SO a guild with 60 people will be my example.
60 people each giving a minimum of 50 through small investment = 3000 investment in a day. 5% of that is 150. SO the upkeep for a guild that can hold a max of 60 people is 150 daily guild funds. Which is not a lot in the long run but enough to make it matter.
If a guild can not pay its daily upkeep, it can not bid and will have any cities held NPC'd. The upkeep continues to rollover and until teh full amount is paid that guild can not bid.
Part 4 Change the costs and cool down times for guild levels
The costs and cool down times are forcing all the major players into fewer guilds, making it harder for smaller guilds to survive. The cool downs should be cut down by at least 50% and the costs should be cut by at least 25%- This coupled with the removal of the need to upgrade Science museum will balance out
Part 5 The city makeup.
This is the most dramatic change. There will be an overall increase in the number of cities on the server, 22 cities per realm for a total of 110 cities. Each realm will have their own set of cities, just like it is now on servers 1-10. However there will be new guidelines and restrictions as explained.
Level 1 Cities
These can be attacked by any guild in the realm that is level 1 or higher- so every guild in the realm (not server) can attack them.
City 1A gives a 20% rep buff
City 1B gives a 50% increase to coins/credits
Level 2 Cities
These can be attacked by any level 2 or higher guild on the server
City 2A gives a 20% rep buff
City 2B gives a 20% rep buff
City 2C gives a 50% increase to coins/credits
CIty 2D gives 1 extra guild chest chance
Level 3 cities
These can be attacked by any Level 3 or higher Guild on the server
City 3A gives a 20% rep buff
City 3B gives a 20% rep buff
City 3C gives a 20% rep buff
City 3D gives a 50% increase to coins/credits
CIty 3E gives 1 extra guild chest chance
Level 4 Cities
These can be attacked by any Level 4 or higher Guild on the server
City 4A gives a 50% increase to coins/credits
CIty 4C gives 1 extra guild chest chance
City 4D Gives 50% pirates bonus
Level 5 Cities
These can be attacked by any Level 5 or higher guild on the server
City 5A Gives 1 extra guild chest chance
City 5B Gives 50% Pirates Bonus
City 5C gives 1 free lab
Level 6 Cities
These can be attacked by Any Level 6 or higher guild on the server
City 6A Gives 50% pirates bonus
City 6B Gives 1 free lab
Level 7 Cities
These can be attacked by any Level 7 Guild or higher on the server
CIty 7A Gives 1 free lab
City 7B Gives 75 stamina
Level 8 Cities
These can be attacked by any Level 8 Guild on the server
CIty 8 Gives 75 stamina
Part 6 CITY LIMIT CAP
There shall be no limit to the number of cities a guild can hold. Now before you blow your top. keep reading
Part 7 BUFF CAP
The Buffs shall be capped as follows
Stamina 100%
Coins/credits 150%
Guild chests 3
Pirates 100%
Lab 1
Stamina 150
SO a guild could hold 8 cities that give rep bonus but would not get 160% rep bonus they would only get 100% This will create interesting scenarios. DO you take extra cities and have to defend them, do you not take them, DO you take them so another guild can't take them? This will also create extra cities for smaller guilds to fight over. Do you take a city that does not increase your buff so you can fight it out with your rival guild in another realm without risking anything? If you are a smaller guild do you work it out with all the small guilds in a different realm to try and steal a city form a big guild in a different realm? There are all sorts of possibilities with this.
So theres my epic plan for GWF. Love it ? Hate it? I may have more to add to this later, especially after people start commenting. Im sure I didn't think of everything.
The only way I could see server wide Realmwars/Guildwars working on server 1-10 is if the current buffs actually stay attached to the guilds as they are now and a new gw would be set up for the entire server where you can actually win more buffs.
I would then make two bonus cities (as mentioned above) lvl constricted and daily, so that lvl 3 guilds could only fight for lvl 3 cities, lvl 4 guilds for lvl 4 cities (and so on) and they can't bid the lower lvl cities when they lvl up.
The next city would have the buffs of the previous ones as well as a new buff.
This will give smaller guilds a chance to buffs as well and fight people with a more similar power lvl. It would give room for 4 guilds to fight each night and bidding will be important as well as politics.
They could even add lvl 2 cities I guess. It would entice guilds to grow, people to invest and would make for more interesting things to do.
Finally some sanity. This game is currently set up to help the rich become richer and the poor to be used by the rich. Spend more time and effort to make the game equitable and we all will be better in the long run.
Posting for DianaP server 8 who isn't able to acces the forum atm:
Arena:
I think arena is a nice feature in game and should stay one for each realm, as you need to keep alive competition within a realm. I would suggest though to make the below changes so players will visit arena more often:
- In order for a player to participate in arena to pay a weekly fee (not very high - this fee is only to help you keep in arena active players)
- Since there will be a weekly fee, rank will be reset and players will now have an incentive to start working for top rank...
Warfare:
In order to avoid server merge to one big guild i suggest to keep cities for lvl 3-5 guilds in realm bidding (maybe reduce cities and make buff % higher) and cities for higher level guilds be server bidding.
General feedback:
This is a nice game and i really enjoy playing it! We hope for more competition between realms so the game becomes more interesting.
Don't think a weekly fee arena would do much except result in losing more coins/creds/gems to yet another tax. Already hard enough to keep up with the increasing costs of everything as you gain levels and the blacksmith/talent cooldown reduction making us hustle enough for cash at an increased rate. Active players are mostly near the top of arena, anyway. A weekly fee and reset would just be the same actives that pay it, then go back to where they were the week prior.
Seeing the difference between server 1 and other, later servers it is easy to observe how compartmentalizing realms makes the earlier servers more active in general--in terms of number of players and guilds. However, it's much less interactive between realms; basically just multiple later-version servers packed into one. I think that kind of compartmentalization would be a benefit for the 3-realm servers as far as longevity, along with server-wide arena and GW as an ADDED feature on all servers. It's too easy to say remove the barriers completely, but surprised the Tynon staff hasn't noticed the difference in server populations when that happens, in that later servers are much more empty and primarily dominated by uber-guilds.
Many good suggestions here. In the end, anything that promotes competition is and dynamic game play is good, even if it ruffles some feathers. As soon as the OP was up the conversation was immediately ripped back to protectionist measures among servers 1-10. If that was the case, perhaps Dawnseeker should have clarified where these proposed changes might be made. If this was supposed to be a discussion about the earlier servers, I hope the devs at least keep perspective to the game as a whole. Call the bluff on the quit threats, most of the players that have been around awhile are too invested to walk away after the dust settles for any changes.
Dawn a sincere advice , please do not ruin this game with unwanted stuff and making this game more imbalance, you already ruined the game by slowing down the progress, i am vip 6 member been struggling to get past one heroic boss for 3 weeks now, do you think some one who paid money to gain advantage will have patience ? and the same time those who pour in money are not dumb to just drop as much as you guys expect by slowing down.
PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS LIKE EVONY, i have had enough on evony for 4 years.
As far as a way to split the buffs... I don't really see a need to split them. Would be easy from a programming point of view to just give the buff to the entire winning realm, the same way the buffs for cities work per realm right now... As far as the number of cities to have in Realm Warfare (not cross realm guild warfare. see my post) I would think having 2 Cities would be the best scenario on servers 1-10. On later servers, 1 City would be ideal. This would put emphasis on the bidding, making funds more crucial to obtaining one. Maybe have the city being bid on actually be named Aerie City. (for servers 1-10 split it into North and South Aerie). Would be very cool to have a weekly or bi-weekly "Battle for Aerie City" that over time everyone would get to participate in.
I dont like the idea of merging all in 1 arena :(
I have already noticed several players taking over accounts that are dead or buying accounts from other players and switching realms in preparation of this happening. I think it would be a huge mistake to consolidate. Many of us have already paid and earned our cities in GW. If this happens, only the strongest Guild will survive and other Guilds will get frustrated and leave there fore abandoning the game. This has happened to other games when making changes such as this.
If you want to kill the server - make the move. You say it will increase competition - I say it will kill it because there will not be any way for advancement in the arena OR in GW.
Okay 2 arenas I like that idea from matt169 But to change GW at this point on servers 1-10 would kill those servers. On server 2 we have a handful of major coiners whose power lvl is so high that the average player/coiner could not compete against. The fall out of this cross realm GW would be the death of server 2. NOW if you could make a Champions arena the was for the top 50 on each server to enter and compete in then that would spark some fun. Heck even if the Champions arena was just for the top 10 in each realm that would still be exciting. Like heaven palace you have to fight to get in it each weekend and work to get to the top of it each weekend, and the rewards in this CHampion arena could be not like the current arena but based on the end of the weekends placement. 1st 200 gems 2nd 100 gems 3rd 50 gems with the 47 players (based on 5 realms, top 10 from each) in it getting different lvls of coins or credits as the payout. Or gear script packages not just gear scirpts like from heroic bosses. I ask that you not kill the servers 1-10 with cross realm GW.
I do not like this idea leave it be
I do not like this idea leave it the way it is!
what iam afraid tho is we can say we dont like it and in the end they will make any change they think fit :(
Sad but true
I've asked around on server 4 and the sentiments are the same. Leave GWs as they are. No one is against some sort of super arena but I think everyone would like to keep the realms seperate.
I guess people are happy the way things are.
I have one for you - Groom in Uprising - Wrath of Odin - Sold his account to Big Rick - according to TOS this is illegal. Will something be done about that? Or will this be removed from the this link.....Will I get banned for reporting this or posting this here?
I offer another alternative to the proposed change...
[Instead of adding a new arena, why not use heaven palace?]
1. Open Heaven Palace 7 days a week, sometimes it's hard to even play on the weekends (for some people).
2. Use the empty areas up the stairs for more statues, I'm sure there's room for at least another forty smaller statues.
3. Instead of top 2 from each realm, make it a real time pvp zone, if you conquer a statue you replace it with your own statue.
[Realm Warfare]
1. Only if buffs remain active after patching
2. Guilds are allowed only one city of each level
3. Rewards for each city increased as you stated to reflect 100% rep gain, 150% lv4, etc.
4. Make 5 cities for each gw level, instead of just one. (higher levels I mean)
[other feedback]
1. server wide banish event at midnight every night. a new boss with new skill. Perhaps a dark mage with a frenzy skill that hits one hero with triple skill attack instead of killing the whole form?
2. (beta) lilli / cianna, karthus / shayd, deimos / adamanti... if some of us cant recruit the old hero names, (some people have both) shouldn't the old heros have been merged?
3. if not then why was calvins name not changed when he went purple so I could use a double hero as well... or let all players on beta be able to recruit lilli, karthus, deimos in the tavern again.
I dont like the arena idea at all, as far as the GW, I go back and forth on whether I like it or not. The biggest issue is, why have different realms if everything starts getting combined? Our server, server 2, needs a deep cleaning of inactives before we start combining things. We dont have a clear view of who is actually playing or not. I am in one of the top guilds and, whereas this would benefit me in game, most likely, I think combining all the guild wars might kill server 2.
I really do have mixed emotions about guild warfare but the arena shouldn't be touched and our ever increasing inactive list needs to be addressed and maybe some new players influxed before we start changing things for just a few to dominate.
I think the best thing to do would be to give full buffs to each city so owning two will not give double but the same buffs...this will encourage the formation of several guilds and spreading out on the server causing more decent and grand investments and several guild wars which of course is best for business. Also the stronger players will not be able to bully other guilds.It will also encourage others to become VIP players instead of just joining one guild and killing the servers.In addition this will increase the number of guild wars since the guilds need the wars for contributions to enhance their guilds levels.
There you guys go trying to fix something that is not broke. LEAVE it the way it is !!!!!!
You guys will get better results by contacting Tynon Billing Support instead of trying to hijack the discussion on Guild Warfare and Arena changes. Pretty sure only reason mods havent shut the thread down yet is because its a stickied thread made by one of the dev team.
Your best results are going to come from this link. Just leave the first first 2 areas blank, Fill in a subject and give details.
http://tynon.support.ucool.com/
Arena: Hate it
*Ragnarok is basically a "server arena" already lol. Top players on the server are already being rewarded through Baal/Cerb, Heaven Palace, & Ragnarok.
G.Warfare: Love & Hate it
*I would hate to give up all our buffs but IF we gain the full buff for only capping 1 city per tier then I would absolutely love it.
*Add an additional city for each tier with only 1 city, so there will be 2 cities total and only have 1 city on the highest tier for the 150 stamina buff.
A fairer and simpler idea:
Why not implement a server-wide realm warfare subject to:
- Each guild city will give the maximum buff for each tier
- There will only be 4 level3 cities, 3 level4, 2 level 5, and 1 each of level 6, 7 and 8 guild cities for the whole server
- A SINGLE GUILD WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO HOLD A MAXIMUM OF TWO GUILD CITIES OF ANY LEVEL
This way, each guild can have a chance, even the relatively smaller ones.
With the 2 guild city cap, forming 1 super guild with all the top players will not give much benefit.