Substitutes: What are your thoughts on it?

I've finally defeated the quest hero required to unlock a substitute in the Beta version.
So, how will this new feature change the game?
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, or strategy insights?

- The substitute automatically replaces the first hero in a fight that dies
- It pops up in the same place in formation that the hero died in.
- Also, the substitute needs to have its own runes and equipment.
- The substitute doesn't attack the round it pops in. It attacks in the next round.

These are what I've observed so far.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/352rdxz.jpg

Interesting, cant wait for it to go live....its going to change the dynamics of the game as we know it for sure. I am not going to enjoy farming low lvl gear for them though ..ugh..

Finally some research. I knew herby was good for something. Good work man

I think this idea is very interesting. I do think its a little late in the game for it. Its gonna require alot of work to get 3 heroes with armor and runes ready for them to be truly effective. I just wish this feature was here on day 1 not day 200 or whatever it is. It will slow progression down even further. Getting the spirits done is gonna make getting all you spirits complete now take another 18 months or more.

SO its a great idea in my mind, but I think most of us would have done some things differently if this was here on day 1

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Finally some research. I knew herby was good for something. Good work man

I think this idea is very interesting. I do think its a little late in the game for it. Its gonna require alot of work to get 3 heroes with armor and runes ready for them to be truly effective. I just wish this feature was here on day 1 not day 200 or whatever it is. It will slow progression down even further. Getting the spirits done is gonna make getting all you spirits complete now take another 18 months or more.

SO its a great idea in my mind, but I think most of us would have done some things differently if this was here on day 1

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It would be a great addition for a new server though. I'm thinking they put this up specifically for the new servers 100 and upwards.

Regarding old or established servers, how do you think it would affect gameplay and strategy?

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Originally Posted by Herby

It would be a great addition for a new server though. I'm thinking they put this up specifically for the new servers 100 and upwards.

Regarding old or established servers, how do you think it would affect gameplay and strategy?

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well for one, it'll take some attention off of thorsday and free tavern tuesday starting out, as alot of the coins/creds people save up for those days are going to be getting used for rune slots on new heroes, and runes for them... It's going to affect the amount of lab runs people can do a day once it goes live if they wanna be able to grind up the gear for the new heroes.

As far as strategy goes... we may see some "bastard" forms in which someone has all tanks as reserve heroes, to get more rounds out of their attackers. (since the first ones to die tend to be the tanks)... It could go many ways though I could see alot of room for play with battle strategy.

Just realized...MORE double runes....and just when I had almost all of them finished lol

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Originally Posted by VillainX

It could go many ways though I could see alot of room for play with battle strategy.

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Indeed. This is a good move from the devs.

Not too overpowered yet can significantly affect the outcome of battles.

Adds a ton of variety and strategy to the game, even at end-game levels.


Example: Saffron might often be used, even at high levels now.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Indeed. This is a good move from the devs.

Not too overpowered yet can significantly affect the outcome of battles.

Adds a ton of variety and strategy to the game, even at end-game levels.


Example: Saffron might often be used, even at high levels now.

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I do agree with your evaluation Herdy, A lot of heroes will be used in this matter. Makes things interesting. YEY for Tynon Devs for coming up with this idea.

I also saw a cavalry style hero on beta that had some sort of shield that may be utilized nicely with this setup... not exactly sure how his shield works but he seemed to block a lot when it was on. I think "Greater Rampart" was the skill name. I didn't have a lot of time to play around in beta but hope to find some soon.

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Originally Posted by VillainX

I also saw a cavalry style hero on beta that had some sort of shield that may be utilized nicely with this setup... not exactly sure how his shield works but he seemed to block a lot when it was on. I think "Greater Rampart" was the skill name. I didn't have a lot of time to play around in beta but hope to find some soon.

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I think he's one of those in the royal arena.
His skill is like saffron's shield but with more block percentage added.

Well its definitely gonna let us come up with new strategies that is for sure. Which will make all elements of the game more interesting. It could make some things easier though. I mean think about it. Get 3 heroes, use meld a lot to get them to 9 stars. Get 3 endurance or vitality at level 8+. Get some hope bringers or champion gear on them, use Thors days to level that all up to 20-30. Then basically you get 5 tanks and 3 offensive dealers for quests and HR. That will take most of us a week or so to do once the patch is live.
SO some things will get a lot easier but some things will get more complex.

Now add in the new heroes and new skills and things get even more complicated,

Overall I think this change will shake things up a bit. Make it more interesting, complicate things, drive us all nuts, then we will get the hang of it all and get bored again in say 3 months

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Well its definitely gonna let us come up with new strategies that is for sure. Which will make all elements of the game more interesting. It could make some things easier though. I mean think about it. Get 3 heroes, use meld a lot to get them to 9 stars. Get 3 endurance or vitality at level 8+. Get some hope bringers or champion gear on them, use Thors days to level that all up to 20-30. Then basically you get 5 tanks and 3 offensive dealers for quests and HR. That will take most of us a week or so to do once the patch is live.
SO some things will get a lot easier but some things will get more complex.

Now add in the new heroes and new skills and things get even more complicated,

Overall I think this change will shake things up a bit. Make it more interesting, complicate things, drive us all nuts, then we will get the hang of it all and get bored again in say 3 months

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That is true matt. It's the endless possibilities that makes me excited on this.

There's a purple hero with a skill called "Gutshot", which targets the lowest power or health hero regardless of where its in on the field.
That might be an interesting skill to explore to get past these tank walls.

Time to start grinding up new gear. Have to cut back on lab runs now.

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Originally Posted by Herby

That is true matt. It's the endless possibilities that makes me excited on this.

There's a purple hero with a skill called "Gutshot", which targets the lowest power or health hero regardless of where its in on the field.
That might be an interesting skill to explore to get past these tank walls.

Time to start grinding up new gear. Have to cut back on lab runs now.

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What? cut back on lab runs?
we need more lab runs now to get the 3 new spirits built up

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Originally Posted by mattp169

What? cut back on lab runs?
we need more lab runs now to get the 3 new spirits built up

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Think he means that he's gonna need more stamina to farm for the other gear materials.

When I realised this I started with more hope sets. Yesterday I crafted one full set (excluding hope spirits) and will do so for each time i have spare stamina. Thanx for confirming my suspicion Herby. If we do it right and start early, by the time this patch comes live, we can have at least some equipment on hope or champ level for the extra heroes that will be required.

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Originally Posted by Herby

I've finally defeated the quest hero required to unlock a substitute in the Beta version.

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Specifically which quest hero did you defeat to unlock the reserve slot?

Don't forget the slots for runes need opening.. at the same price. The slots for chips for gear need opening, still gems only!! You will need the stamina to hit the HRs for the gear, stamina, to grind for the gear, more stamina, and continue your advancement in current game. More stamina for labs, (no free one yet even tho we have the buff), and fewer tokens won (as was made harder to slow us up). For those who currently need 280 stamina PER GEAR (justice), and still work for spirit plans.. well.. i for one am discouraged by the amt of stamina needed to even think of getting ready for this. In that regard, i hope they take their sweet time in beta.

This is good, in that it will definitely lengthen the game, but it will be very costly.... people have not really added it all up yet. And don't forget the gold and credits its eating up. WHEW A bit overwhelming. Oh yeah, and gold to earn new runes for heroes we're not sure what they need yet. I'm sure i'm forgetting more.......

Perhaps we can get Devs to consider a double stamina day in place of the chests hardly anyone buys any more for Wednesdays?? How about that Devs? Kinda like Sunday training day. We can call it HumpDay, getting over the hump of the stamina drain.

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Originally Posted by Hellion

Specifically which quest hero did you defeat to unlock the reserve slot?

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That is General Mulan Hellion. Beat her to get the first reserve slot open.

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Originally Posted by Herby

I've finally defeated the quest hero required to unlock a substitute in the Beta version.
So, how will this new feature change the game?
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, or strategy insights?

- The substitute automatically replaces the first hero in a fight that dies
- It pops up in the same place in formation that the hero died in.
- Also, the substitute needs to have its own runes and equipment.
- The substitute doesn't attack the round it pops in. It attacks in the next round.

These are what I've observed so far.

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The only problem is the battle is already predetemined and why reserves if you can only field 5 heroes at a time. Most NPCs only have 5 enemies, so having extra heroes would make it too easy. Also the bigger players will be too overpowered. What chance has anyone going to have against a 5:8 ratio.

Personally I think you will eventually 5 heroes you use and 3 you can swap with for various opponents allowing you to change your build to suit that battle. I believe it's for ease of form change, rather than 'extra' heroes in battle.

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Originally Posted by Hellion

Specifically which quest hero did you defeat to unlock the reserve slot?

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General Mulan, the first gold boss in the royal arena.

I love the idea, will help out on boss fights I would imagine. Might make some toons like Smoulder more usable too. Have him frontline and absorb some hits as he whittles down the guys, dies, and have a real tank appear.

It will be hard to level up, and unlock the gem slots for, all that gear for a jump in replacement, but then there has to be some downside to the advantage.

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Originally Posted by Rumbleguts

I love the idea, will help out on boss fights I would imagine. Might make some toons like Smoulder more usable too. Have him frontline and absorb some hits as he whittles down the guys, dies, and have a real tank appear.

It will be hard to level up, and unlock the gem slots for, all that gear for a jump in replacement, but then there has to be some downside to the advantage.

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Better get started early!

I have a 6 piece hope bringer's set at level 20 now, and 5 level 7 yellow rune set.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Better get started early!

I have a 6 piece hope bringer's set at level 20 now, and 5 level 7 yellow rune set.

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You're not the only one :D

I already have 4 sets ready of Guardian :D

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Originally Posted by Boroeast

You're not the only one :D

I already have 4 sets ready of Guardian :D

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That's a good start Boroeast.

I'm way behind lol. Starting tomorrow only 1 lab run per day, and the rest to grinding gear!

Do you know when the update will go live?

From what i observed of the reserve heros, they do drop in the battle as soon as you lose one. With the proper heros, you can get that last hit, or little extra push you need. I also believe that how it is set up at the start of battle determines the outcome, so that "predetermined result" included any reserve heroes. And the other person has the same opportunity. I see this as a big plus in HR and quest. There is no time to change anything, they literally drop in the middle of battle. So does the enemy have them.

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Originally Posted by MisChief

Don't forget the slots for runes need opening.. at the same price. The slots for chips for gear need opening, still gems only!! You will need the stamina to hit the HRs for the gear, stamina, to grind for the gear, more stamina, and continue your advancement in current game. More stamina for labs, (no free one yet even tho we have the buff), and fewer tokens won (as was made harder to slow us up). For those who currently need 280 stamina PER GEAR (justice), and still work for spirit plans.. well.. i for one am discouraged by the amt of stamina needed to even think of getting ready for this. In that regard, i hope they take their sweet time in beta.

This is good, in that it will definitely lengthen the game, but it will be very costly.... people have not really added it all up yet. And don't forget the gold and credits its eating up. WHEW A bit overwhelming. Oh yeah, and gold to earn new runes for heroes we're not sure what they need yet. I'm sure i'm forgetting more.......

Perhaps we can get Devs to consider a double stamina day in place of the chests hardly anyone buys any more for Wednesdays?? How about that Devs? Kinda like Sunday training day. We can call it HumpDay, getting over the hump of the stamina drain.

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Actually the mysterious chests will probably be at least somewhat more useful on Wednesdays with the new coin and credit bonuses.

Yes. I have one in my reserve. This was my observation from my own experience. It even dropped in during banish. Until i took it out. :) This is not speculation or assumption.

And about the Wed chests purchases, BETA still can't buy gems, so using 100 on a chest is a rare sight indeed. And it remains to be seen how this may affect live, but from all i have heard and discussed with fellow players, they'd rather have stamina.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Better get started early!

I have a 6 piece hope bringer's set at level 20 now, and 5 level 7 yellow rune set.

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Although it makes me sad to think of all the extra patterns I destroyed ... especially those lightbringer relic.

The reserve hero even jumps in during final hit in banish and because the boss has already done the final strike the reserve hero gets 2 hits.

Herb, MisChief, would you guys say it's safe to just work on 1 new gear set for now or should we do all 3? seen as we only open up extra space as we prolong, im thinking working on 1 extra set of gears and runes will be enough to hold me over till the the patch is live etc...

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Originally Posted by Greenly

Herb, MisChief, would you guys say it's safe to just work on 1 new gear set for now or should we do all 3? seen as we only open up extra space as we prolong, im thinking working on 1 extra set of gears and runes will be enough to hold me over till the the patch is live etc...

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I think levelling 1 set of gear would be the best course of action for now, or until the patch goes live.

Guardian or ironheart set would be a good level to target.

Agree with Herby. Unless you have an overfill of stamina, it does eat it up to get the extra gear, and do the normal daily activites. I personally am working on one atm, and changing it to any new hero i try out. Besides, you can't rest them with gear on, so the extra sets will sit in bank/package. Add that to the plan, the items to get the gear, and soon bank is overflowing. LOL

Thank you Mischief, your answer was the one I was looking for. Personal and straight to the point with out any fluff :).

So far what Herby what say, I have confirmed it by myself doing it. Nothing seems out of order from his words.

Thanks for sharing. :)

thx herby for you nice words :)

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Originally Posted by smokingfox

thx herby for you nice words :)

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Thank you.

My only intent was to explore the possibilities that the new substitute hero feature opens for all of us.
How it impacts both established servers and new servers. And the ramifications and consequences that this presents to all players.

yeah and you are doing a great job keep it up is there any info on when this goes live?