Solution to Bots, Macros, Auto-clickers, Mouse Recorders

Most of us have seen it, in Heroic Realms and Quests. Toons who seem to be on an endless loop of attacking, being beaten, going back to the starting point, attacking, being beaten, etc etc. And they seem to go on for hours.

These are toons who are using mouse recorders or autoclickers, hitting the same boss over and over, trying to get that one very lucky multiple stun, multiple critical hit, multiple dodge run to beat the boss.

My proposal to solve this is simple:

Make each Heroic Boss attempt and Quest boss attempt cost 1 stamina, win or lose.
and remove the 20 stamina cost for quest attempts, and 5 stamina cost for a successful heroic boss killing.

The new Royal Arena in beta already has this feature. You spend 5 stamina win or lose every time you attempt fighting a boss.
I believe this should be also implemented in the Heroic Realms and Quests, to dissuade players from using automation techniques.

Preparation and building up of characters would be key to winning. Although some luck would still be involved, it would be greatly lessened than before. Strategy and critical thinking would be needed, to plan out one's formation, and to have an exchange of ideas with other players, before attempting a difficult boss.


Problems are best nipped at the bud, before they become too big to change or solve.

I remember when doing the lab 2 normal 700 point boss sometimes it would take 5 attempts or sometimes 30 or even 50. Even if you had killed it 20 times already.
All these high end bosses HR Lightbringer bosses up, Storymode past Veleno, Lab level 2 700/800 point bosses can still kill you even after doubling your power.

I think there needs to be an adjustment to the defensive stats in the game because as it is right now at a certain point in the game you just stop gaining defense and just focus on hp/attack to progress. Without being able to reduce those 60-70k hits to something reasonable like 20-30k makes reliable progress very difficult.

Only if they fix that issue would adding a cost be a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kruize

I remember when doing the lab 2 normal 700 point boss sometimes it would take 5 attempts or sometimes 30 or even 50. Even if you had killed it 20 times already.
All these high end bosses HR Lightbringer bosses up, Storymode past Veleno, Lab level 2 700/800 point bosses can still kill you even after doubling your power.

I think there needs to be an adjustment to the defensive stats in the game because as it is right now at a certain point in the game you just stop gaining defense and just focus on hp/attack to progress. Without being able to reduce those 60-70k hits to something reasonable like 20-30k makes reliable progress very difficult.

Only if they fix that issue would adding a cost be a good idea.

---

All the new heroes, skills and having up to 3 substitute heroes would offset any additional difficulty that bosses would have.
Instead of focusing on power, damage, hp, you would focus on all the possible combinations that the new heroes/skills would present.

Also, I found out that Talents are cap'd at level 100. I would imagine gear would be the same. This would make a player focus on defense after getting the maximum levels for their offensive talents and gears.

Also notice I did not include a stamina cost for the Lab bosses. The lab stamina costs are steep as it is, and would make no sense adding one for the lab bosses anymore.

i dont like this idea! cause, i, myself, no auto clicker, have sat and done the hit and try again process, for hours, until i got the hit that i needed. if each try costs stamina, it will hurt me, and many more who do just sit and try and try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenly

i dont like this idea! cause, i, myself, no auto clicker, have sat and done the hit and try again process, for hours, until i got the hit that i needed. if each try costs stamina, it will hurt me, and many more who do just sit and try and try again.

---

If you sit for hours trying but not succeeding, don't you think that you should stop, and buildup or change strategies?
Instead of relying on blind luck to get you through.

On a different note, I find it ironic that you admit to sitting around for hours, endlessly attempting heroic boss fights, yet you complain when the auto-fight is taken away in world boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herby

On a different note, I find it ironic that you admit to sitting around for hours, endlessly attempting heroic boss fights, yet you complain when the auto-fight is taken away in world boss.

---

yes, weekends i have spare time, or sometimes at night, during the week, i do not and certainly can not sit at work, clicking ok to keep fighting world bosses. maybe not best to just make assumptions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greenly

yes, weekends i have spare time, or sometimes at night, during the week, i do not and certainly can not sit at work, clicking ok to keep fighting world bosses. maybe not best to just make assumptions?

---

No assumptions, just observations.

Taking the thread back to track, I firmly believe that the luck factor of fights should be lessened, and more strategy and preparation would instead replace it.

Several top players from different servers have admitted to me that they use autoclickers or mouse recorders to luck their way through heroic boss and quest fights, and I cannot condone this type of play. If the best and biggest players do it, more and more smaller players would copy them.

I and many players of my guild spend hours in Heroic to try and beat a boss.
Luck is a big part of the game.
I feel it is strang to advice players not to play on luck since it will mean no progress for the longest time.
I think it also can be seen as determined to keep trying untill you get the perfect roll of dice.

I don't think it is a good solution to make it cost stamina.

I would however propose a countdown (after 30 minutes to an hour?) where you have to wait a few minutes and are teleported back to sonia.
This will solve the issue without adding the stamina.

I agree that it is very irritating to see someone use a bot and luck his way on the board while you are trying without a bot.
It entices using one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildflower

I and many players of my guild spend hours in Heroic to try and beat a boss.
Luck is a big part of the game.
I feel it is strang to advice players not to play on luck since it will mean no progress for the longest time.
I think it also can be seen as determined to keep trying untill you get the perfect roll of dice.

I don't think it is a good solution to make it cost stamina.

I would however propose a countdown (after 30 minutes to an hour?) where you have to wait a few minutes and are teleported back to sonia.
This will solve the issue without adding the stamina.

I agree that it is very irritating to see someone use a bot and luck his way on the board while you are trying without a bot.
It entices using one.

---

Your idea does hold some merit, I will give you that.
Though it would still fail to address the use of automation in completing the heroic realms and quest bosses.
Even with a cooldown between attempts, automation software will still provide an endless amount of attempts.
Also, with the introduction of the fast forward button and increased run rate, you can get an attempt at a boss once every 10 seconds.

The reasons why I am suddenly coming out with this proposal are:
- The game is heavily being updated daily in beta. If there was a time to propose or suggest changes, I believe now would be the best.
- Heroic realms / Quest bosses are the most important aspects of the game to advance further. If you cannot overcome them, you will not progress.
- More and more people are using automation software to luck themselves out, instead of trying to make their characters more powerful, or thinking of a better strategy to overcome difficult bosses.
- Giving each attempt a stamina cost stops automation software in their tracks. Since no one has unlimited stamina.
- The new Royal Arena Bosses have a stamina cost. Why not include it with Heroic and Quest bosses as well.
- Maybe, just maybe, Tynon can increase the rate of stamina generation for everyone.

this is a solution to a non problem. bots doesn't give any negative externalities to other players. The only negative externality they give is the arena. So maybe you'd like to suggest that each arena click cost 1 stamina? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koja6049

this is a solution to a non problem. bots doesn't give any negative externalities to other players. The only negative externality they give is the arena. So maybe you'd like to suggest that each arena click cost 1 stamina? :rolleyes:

---

If you have carefully read what I've said, you will see that even the top players have admitted to me of using such methods to surpass heroic and quest bosses. The arena hardly impacts one's progress into the game. You can be a top player even if you're ranked 1000th in the arena. The same cannot be said for quests and heroic realm.

Don't you believe that problems need to be nipped at the bud before they become too big to control?

Lol, bots? Damn i must be a bot because i have been trying to kill a herioc boss for 2 weeks and ya I spam attack him as much as i can , some times for hours,all the while trying to lvl and BS, Talents as much as possible what else is there to do after all the labs are done and cant progress any further in quest, and all 3 pirate sails are done, I dont think all those players spaming the herioc are Bots.... so i disagree with the 1 sta per attempt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herby

If you have carefully read what I've said, you will see that even the top players have admitted to me of using such methods to surpass heroic and quest bosses. The arena hardly impacts one's progress into the game. You can be a top player even if you're ranked 1000th in the arena. The same cannot be said for quests and heroic realm.

Don't you believe that problems need to be nipped at the bud before they become too big to control?

---

You only try to control something if it becomes a nuisance to other people. This is how our law works in real life. You don't go and poke your nose in other people's private life. That being said, auto clicking bosses doesn't pose a nuisance to other people. However, autoclicking arena does, you can luck your way to grab other people's arena chests. Even worse, some top people can use their bot to grab people's chests everytime they had a new one (the top 5 especially).

Quest, bosses -->private in a sense they don't affect other people. Arena --> public as they involve player interaction. And you say the arena hardly impacts one's progress? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koja6049

You only try to control something if it becomes a nuisance to other people. This is how our law works in real life. You don't go and poke your nose in other people's private life. That being said, auto clicking bosses doesn't pose a nuisance to other people. However, autoclicking arena does, you can luck your way to grab other people's arena chests. Even worse, some top people can use their bot to grab people's chests everytime they had a new one (the top 5 especially).

Quest, bosses -->private in a sense they don't affect other people. Arena --> public as they involve player interaction. And you say the arena hardly impacts one's progress? :rolleyes:

---

You do agree that Tynon is a game, and is separate from real life?

I find it troubling that not only do you disagree with my proposal, but you actually defend those who use autoclickers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herby

You do agree that Tynon is a game, and is separate from real life?

I find it troubling that not only do you disagree with my proposal, but you actually defend those who use autoclickers.

---

Since it's just a game, then why are you trying so hard to propose this non-solution?

Your solution should come hand-in-hand with implementing 1 stamina for every arena click :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koja6049

Since it's just a game, then why are you trying so hard to propose this non-solution?

Your solution should come hand-in-hand with implementing 1 stamina for every arena click :D

---

I can clearly see that you are muddling the details of my proposal with something that has clearly nothing to do with it.

Thank you for your feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herby

I can clearly see that you are muddling the details of my proposal with something that has clearly nothing to do with it.

Thank you for your feedback.

---

I find it troubling that not only do you disagree with my proposal, but you actually defend those who use autoclickers in arena.

Thank you for your feedback.

Oh Herby, you must have spamed herioc bosses many times during your rise to fame, so why didnt you call for a 1 sta per attempt then? Now that your one of the big boys , your calling for a way to slow down others , it appears you are afraid of others catching up too you. As its stands we need to keep 5 sta to keep trying a boss, after all the rest of our sta is gone doing other things, if they went to 1 sta per attempt then that would slow down the rest of the field considerably .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingpin_7278978

Oh Herby, you must have spamed herioc bosses many times during your rise to fame, so why didnt you call for a 1 sta per attempt then? Now that your one of the big boys , your calling for a way to slow down others , it appears you are afraid of others catching up too you. As its stands we need to keep 5 sta to keep trying a boss, after all the rest of our sta is gone doing other things, if they went to 1 sta per attempt then that would slow other down the rest of the field considerably .

---

I'm not a top player, I'm just one of those that can come by. I know a lot of information since I talk to a lot of players.
And no, I have not used any automation software and highly condone those who do.
I have already stated my reasons in one of my previous posts above:


The reasons why I am suddenly coming out with this proposal are:

- The game is heavily being updated daily in beta. If there was a time to propose or suggest changes, I believe now would be the best.
- Heroic realms / Quest bosses are the most important aspects of the game to advance further. If you cannot overcome them, you will not progress.
- More and more people are using automation software to luck themselves out, instead of trying to make their characters more powerful, or thinking of a better strategy to overcome difficult bosses.
- Giving each attempt a stamina cost stops automation software in their tracks. Since no one has unlimited stamina.
- The new Royal Arena Bosses have a stamina cost. Why not include it with Heroic and Quest bosses as well.
- With the introduction of the fast forward button and increased run rate, you can get an attempt at a boss once every 10 seconds.
- Maybe, just maybe, Tynon can increase the rate of stamina generation for everyone.

I didn't consider that you can indeed create a loop to catch being bounced out of heroics as well.
Stamina cost seems the only solution, win or lose.

It would be nice to have more stamina in that case.
I find stamina low as it is already with doing 2 lab runs and crafting.
Another solution for me would be to be able to get spirittokens in another way, so one could decide not to spend 60 stamina on it.

It would fit with the current system running in beta to pay stamina win or lose.

(Personally I feel it would suck if it would cost 5 stamina since I am needing about 20 tries to get everything right and luck working for me at the moment XD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildflower

I didn't consider that you can indeed create a loop to catch being bounced out of heroics as well.
Stamina cost seems the only solution, win or lose.

It would be nice to have more stamina in that case.
I find stamina low as it is already with doing 2 lab runs and crafting.
Another solution for me would be to be able to get spirittokens in another way, so one could decide not to spend 60 stamina on it.

---

I highly support these ideas.

I am hoping in the future, you can get spirit tokens like medals in the arena, or as shuffles in the guild chests or quest completion or heavens palace shuffles.

Maybe lowering the cost of buying stamina would help, and keep coiners happy (10 gems for 30 stamina x 5, then 20 gems for 50 stamina x 5)
Or increasing the stamina regeneration rate would definitely help everyone and make ALL the players happy.

Its a tough solution you're trying to push Herby as you've decided to be very selective in the numerous facets of the game.

- World Bosses (Have a built in auto clicker)
- Lab Bosses (You aren't requiring stam per attempt due to stamina required to enter a lab)
- Quest Bosses (Opposite to Labs you want to remove stamina cost per area and apply a cost per boss attempt)
- HR Elite Bosses (Change a 5 kill cost to a 1 per attempt) [This is brutal to everyone, auto clickers or not]
- Arena Account Farmers (No stamina cost, even though it affects other players accounts)


What about other things that affect what your trying to achieve.
- Macros/Bots for rune farming (Do you want to put a cost on that too?)
- The game having an auto farming mechanic built into the game outside of world bosses. For both item upgrade collecting and leveling.
- The alternative to people who sit around for hours or for people who use auto clickers for periods of time, training. How about increasing that benefit to offer a counter to 12-24hrs of bots/macro?
- Increasing stamina regen as has been suggested affects amount of leveling stamina/labs that can be run a day which again require more changes to bring them back into line.



It's not all just black and white, and Tynon does promote auto fighting as well. So that probably gives people the idea that getting a clicker is ok because Tynon says I can go afk and farm my items/world bosses. Much would have to change to promote new culture to go with no autofights to progress.

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kruize

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

---

In order to solve big problems, you need to start somewhere small.

I've read and thought about this. Although I can see where your're going with this this suggestion Herby, it will hurt the very players who aren't usinng the auto-clicks and make it incredibly difficult to craft gear and do a labyrinth. Instead of punishing the guilty, you punish everyone and that isn't fair.

Ideas like this are all started with the best intentions but very often they increase the very effect they're supposed to reduce. Take the Evony captcha debacle. The whole idea was to stop the botters. What happened? Well by the end, more people ended up botting because they were tired of putting in the captcha. Since Evony was punishing everyone, their opinion was why play by the ToS if the game was working against the innocent.

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

I've read and thought about this. Although I can see where your're going with this this suggestion Herby, it will hurt the very players who aren't usinng the auto-clicks and make it incredibly difficult to craft gear and do a labyrinth. Instead of punishing the guilty, you punish everyone and that isn't fair.

Ideas like this are all started with the best intentions but very often they increase the very effect they're supposed to reduce. Take the Evony captcha debacle. The whole idea was to stop the botters. What happened? Well by the end, more people ended up botting because they were tired of putting in the captcha. Since Evony was punishing everyone, their opinion was why play by the ToS if the game was working against the innocent.

---

This. QFT. If you make laws that hurt everyone other than the intended targets, you are bound to get a backlash.

If you think about it, 100 stamina at 2-3 mins per boss attempt means you are going to be sitting there for 3-5hrs doing nothing but heroic attempts.

And you gain a maximum of 219 stamina per day for free.

Doesn't sound that bad. Again, this is to curb the use of autoclickers, and promote the use of tactics, strategy, and planning instead of luck when tackling difficult bosses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lamodomo_2092870

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

---

This is a fine idea as well! I will support this wholly!

I am sure the naysayers will try to shoot it down also.

Automation software will not benefit much from this, as you can only do 6 attempts an hour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildflower

I didn't consider that you can indeed create a loop to catch being bounced out of heroics as well.
Stamina cost seems the only solution, win or lose.

It would be nice to have more stamina in that case.
I find stamina low as it is already with doing 2 lab runs and crafting.
Another solution for me would be to be able to get spirittokens in another way, so one could decide not to spend 60 stamina on it.

It would fit with the current system running in beta to pay stamina win or lose.

(Personally I feel it would suck if it would cost 5 stamina since I am needing about 20 tries to get everything right and luck working for me at the moment XD)

---

Ditto the above

I am not a fan of automation software, the detail that can go into a macro makes it possible to circumvent most "solutions" (timers, cooldowns, being kicked from the area etc.) other than stamina cost per attempt.
With the addition of reserves and more armour sets to create and upkeep, challenging heroes and HR costing per attempt stamina is going to be even more of an issue than it has been in a while and could persist. I'm not entirely sure a blanket increase in stamina regen would be necessary but perhaps tie it to level and increase the maximum amount of stamina permissible too. Personally I would like to see stamina go from 0 to max in 24 hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kruize

Its a tough solution you're trying to push Herby as you've decided to be very selective in the numerous facets of the game.

- World Bosses (Have a built in auto clicker)
- Lab Bosses (You aren't requiring stam per attempt due to stamina required to enter a lab)
- Quest Bosses (Opposite to Labs you want to remove stamina cost per area and apply a cost per boss attempt) Didn't see this suggested and don't feel it is an issue, HR bosses dictate progression a lot more than quest bosses
- HR Elite Bosses (Change a 5 kill cost to a 1 per attempt) [This is brutal to everyone, auto clickers or not]
- Arena Account Farmers (No stamina cost, even though it affects other players accounts) Don't find this to be an issue, if someone is stronger than you I feel they have every right to stakes which I feel belong to nobody till the timer is up


What about other things that affect what your trying to achieve.
- Macros/Bots for rune farming (Do you want to put a cost on that too?) Measure are in place to limit bot effectiveness especially with reserves on the way - non-issue
- The game having an auto farming mechanic built into the game outside of world bosses. For both item upgrade collecting and leveling. Don't see how this affects what Herby and Wild are trying to achieve
- The alternative to people who sit around for hours or for people who use auto clickers for periods of time, training. How about increasing that benefit to offer a counter to 12-24hrs of bots/macro?
- Increasing stamina regen as has been suggested affects amount of leveling stamina/labs that can be run a day which again require more changes to bring them back into line. As far as I am concerned these have been put out of line with the need for more armour sets, and labs are controlled via gems and VIP levels anyway so - non-issue



It's not all just black and white, and Tynon does promote auto fighting as well. So that probably gives people the idea that getting a clicker is ok because Tynon says I can go afk and farm my items/world bosses. Much would have to change to promote new culture to go with no autofights to progress. Disagree that much would need to change but curbing the most abused problem as I see it lately is a good place to start.

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lamodomo_2092870

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

---

Seriously limits people who don't have much time to spend in game, say for instance john doe has 2 hours to play a day, 12 attempts... Little rough on the casual gamer, even more so given the result button, still prefer stamina cost.

Well I have an alternative solution to the auto clickers in HR and quests. I have mentioned it before....
Add auto fight to HR and quest bosses.

Quote:

---

If you think about it, 100 stamina at 2-3 mins per boss attempt means you are going to be sitting there for 3-5hrs doing nothing but heroic attempts.

And you gain a maximum of 219 stamina per day for free.

Doesn't sound that bad. Again, this is to curb the use of autoclickers, and promote the use of tactics, strategy, and planning instead of luck when tackling difficult bosses.

---

Who has an extra 100 sta? 4 labs = 210 sta... one piece of gear = min of 180 sta. IH and above. and chances are you dont start the day with a full sta bar anyway, or at least I dont, unless i get lucky in guild chests , but thats hit and miss. I need to time 2 of the labs with the 30 free sta twice a day which helps a bit, but 99 percent of the time I dont have enough sta. So another 100 sta drain would not be welcome at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildflower

I and many players of my guild spend hours in Heroic to try and beat a boss.
Luck is a big part of the game.
I feel it is strang to advice players not to play on luck since it will mean no progress for the longest time.
I think it also can be seen as determined to keep trying untill you get the perfect roll of dice.

I don't think it is a good solution to make it cost stamina.

I would however propose a countdown (after 30 minutes to an hour?) where you have to wait a few minutes and are teleported back to sonia.
This will solve the issue without adding the stamina.

I agree that it is very irritating to see someone use a bot and luck his way on the board while you are trying without a bot.
It entices using one.

---

I like your idea but with a small modification. Have the cooldown after a certain amount of tries for the same boss and the cooldown is variable in time, say between 5 and 10 minutes (just an example). The time left would appear below the HR icon like it does for the WB Icon. If you click on the Icon before the cooldown has expired it adds another minute to the cooldown. This will go a long ways towards defeating the autoclickers.

WHy does everyone want to complicate teh issue. If you could auto fight HR and quests like banish, theres no need to use an auto clicker and it levels the playing field for all

I must be one of the few who hasn't seen this so called problem so that's kind of why my position is that there is no problem and there isn't anything that needs to be fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattp169

WHy does everyone want to complicate teh issue. If you could auto fight HR and quests like banish, theres no need to use an auto clicker and it levels the playing field for all

---

actually for quests there's already a semi-autoclick, it's the autoquest function hehehe :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koja6049

actually for quests there's already a semi-autoclick, it's the autoquest function hehehe :cool:

---

yes, but i am talking about auto fight the boss over and over again till you win

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattp169

WHy does everyone want to complicate teh issue. If you could auto fight HR and quests like banish, theres no need to use an auto clicker and it levels the playing field for all

---

No idea why people insist on making reasonably small problems in to a much larger one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Revan

I must be one of the few who hasn't seen this so called problem so that's kind of why my position is that there is no problem and there isn't anything that needs to be fixed.

---

Truthfully, this is only a small one. There are a tiny minority uses this type of software to speed up their game and really not by much. As I said in my previous post, trying to curb it with complicated and punishing ideas often makes what began as a small problem into a game wise concern.

Quote:

---

I must be one of the few who hasn't seen this so called problem so that's kind of why my position is that there is no problem and there isn't anything that needs to be fixed.

---

I hear ya, if someone saw me doing heroics then would think I use a bot , but i dont , its just me clicking away , fighting then clicking sometimes for an hour or 2 straight and that doesn't help most of the time lol, seems like when tynon feels I am ready to beat a boss , the boss dies...go figure.

well what herby is talking about is what a few people are doing to the extreme. Im sure there are a few people who fight a hr boss at a power level that only a miracle would allow them to win. SO they use an auto clicker to have it fight that boss for 8-12 hours straight while they sleep or go to work. And doing it that many times may allow the miracle to happen. But you know I dont really see that as an issue. The issue is the game design that allows the miracle or requires the miracle to win. So if the game design isnt changed just add autofight so we can all do it without using the auto clickers and the issue goes away