Pirates rules/proposal

When there is a limit on how many sail chances we get, doesn't it make sense to also limit the number of maps people can steal? Since there apparently isn't, or a limit on number of attacks by an individual, this effectively allows users the ability to "punish" or exact "revenge" on other players. Since there is also a limit (24 hours) on battle revenges, this seems like a glaring oversight on the checks and balances we normally see in the game.


If this is in the wrong forum, mods please relocate for me. Thank you!

Attacking in Pirates is limited to once every 5 minutes. Furthermore, They can only sink a ship if they have NO map, and a sail left. If they do not have a sail left, they can not attack in Caribbean. So there is some sort of limiting, just apparently not the kind you are looking for. I know it sucks for some of the smaller players, but that should be more incentive to grow strong so people can not sink you. You could also join one of the stronger guilds and sail with a strong player so you aren't sunk. Caribbean is meant to be competitive, and I doubt they will be changing that any time soon.

My guild strength and status is not an issue, but there are several people who have a problem in view of the ethics of people who choose rarely to sail, but often steal maps, and sink others and simply hand off their maps to their own alts. Apparently, the motivation is simply to prevent anyone they chose from making a successful sail, since they do not demonstrate any desire to make successful sails of their own. Obviously, if they wanted to make sails, which they easily could (at times), they would, that is the normal goal of Pirates.

So in essence, the practice I see is not one of fair play, and like many other aspects of the game, there are restrictions to prevent abuse by players who are much larger and able to take unfair advantage of the smaller players. Tynon obviously cares about the smaller players, and does not want them to become so discouraged by rampant power abuses by the larger players that they quit the game; hence some of the other restrictions on revenge, etc. There are restrictions on what level players that can be hit in HR, as another example. If you win a revenge from a prior attack, you cannot continue to attack the weaker player at will. It just seems to me that what is being done, although not strictly against any current rule (other than some possible rule about owning multiple accounts), does violate the spirit of the game as portrayed by the rules that do exist to govern and provide a balance between large and small players. Without the existing restrictions, higher powered players would drastically dominate all the other players. Tynon obviously lends some protection for the smaller players to keep them encouraged and striving to grow, and become more powerful.

So in summary, there are players who have alts in other guilds that are given maps taken from "enemy" players in Pirates simply to prevent the aggressors sail limit from interfering with their idea of revenging/punishing others without limits, and enabling them to use their superior strength to unfairly harass people they dislike. Hardly fair play. I am merely exploring some means of eliminating this avenue of what seems to many to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

well said as there is a few players that tend to bully entire guilds in pirates by passing maps off to their alts

This is a huge problem on server 2. One of the VH's of another top guild has taken it upon himself to sink as many ships in my guild as he can. The situation has become akin to the Hatfields and McCoys as what started as a war of words has devolved into a sink fest with three of our guys sinking him on sight and him handing off map after map to his alts in order to sink our entire guild as much as possible. I don't have a problem with being sunk for maps that are to be used for sails. That's part of the game. What I do have a problem with is sinking players out of spite and then handing off the map to an alt just so you can immediately turn around and sink another. We have given this player a pass on several occasions with no let up on his part and so the feud continues. I don't know what the answer is. I do know that many players have alts they use as a map source to get in more than one sail. The most recent patch that put maps into the Assistant chests was a brilliant move on Tynon's part I think because this effectively eliminates the need for alts as map sources. Or at least it should seeing as how there are now three different ways to get maps from your own account without having to loot one. In fact, after the maps were put into the Assistant chests, I have seen way more participation by small players in Pirates over the past few days than I have in months. This is encouraging. Now if they can just figure out a way to limit the antics of players like the aforementioned VH who hands off dozens of maps in order to be a real pirate. That will be Tynon's next challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hellion

This is a huge problem on server 2. One of the VH's of another top guild has taken it upon himself to sink as many ships in my guild as he can. The situation has become akin to the Hatfields and McCoys as what started as a war of words has devolved into a sink fest with three of our guys sinking him on sight and him handing off map after map to his alts in order to sink our entire guild as much as possible. I don't have a problem with being sunk for maps that are to be used for sails. That's part of the game. What I do have a problem with is sinking players out of spite and then handing off the map to an alt just so you can immediately turn around and sink another. We have given this player a pass on several occasions with no let up on his part and so the feud continues. I don't know what the answer is. I do know that many players have alts they use as a map source to get in more than one sail. The most recent patch that put maps into the Assistant chests was a brilliant move on Tynon's part I think because this effectively eliminates the need for alts as map sources. Or at least it should seeing as how there are now three different ways to get maps from your own account without having to loot one. In fact, after the maps were put into the Assistant chests, I have seen way more participation by small players in Pirates over the past few days than I have in months. This is encouraging. Now if they can just figure out a way to limit the antics of players like the aforementioned VH who hands off dozens of maps in order to be a real pirate. That will be Tynon's next challenge.

---

Simple solution: tell your small players to get bigger and more powerful than him.
Sink his entire guild until he lets up.

Peeta,
small players do not turn into big players overnight, as I'm sure you realize. If this practice discourages enough of the smaller players, who also cannot grow as rapidly a the larger players (so they never realistically will be able to protect themselves), they may well quit the game totally. Obviously, this does not fit Tynon's business model. There should be some solution. I merely wanted to stimulate discussion of a problem, and hope that others can offer possible suggestions that could be considered.

Additionally, sinking everyone in a players Guild who practices this only leads to more bad will, especially among the smaller players of that Guild. Basically, it's virtually the same principle, same offensive tactic. Although, perhaps if absolutely no one from that Guild ever made a successful sail, perhaps pressure from within could have a dampening effect on that behavior. On that thought though, my feelings are that lowering oneself, or a Guild to the same level as a person who deserves no respect is never the answer. And the old saw about two wrongs making a right come into play.

As I said....food for thought, and hopefully an improvement in the game that will make it more enjoyable for more players.

Peeta it does take time to grow big and if you can't coin alot then you need to rely on rewards from pirates and such. Pirates does afford smaller players with coin and credit to upgrade though. My suggestion is Limit the amount of the sink to 2 per player after all are given 3 maps now, so really no need to sink over 20 players just for spite.

Also there seem to be a few glitches that helps with the strategic sinking of other guilds.

1. When you just login, you are not registered to a guild. You can take a map from a stronger guildmate to free him up for sinking.
2. When you leave your carib screen open over night the first sail will be registered in the log, but still count for the previous evening.
This gives an illusion you have sailed 4 times, when in fact you have a sail left to sink others.

I see some guilds using this strategy when they feel particular vengeful against other guilds.
Is all fair in love and war? Or is there something called fair play even possible?
Does Tynon want to address these issues?

This is a really great idea to stop the "sink and pass" issue that plagues many servers. It won't stop it but will def discourage it. You get four sails so give four (possible) sinks; the game now gives you 3 maps while completing the assistant; and you also have the chance of getting a map from guild chest. So that's at least 5-7 maps- more than enough. I hope this idea gets some consideration. :)

It's good to see that there is at least some interest in recognizing that there is a problem with this practice. Of course, it IS a war game, but even in real warfare, there are "rules of engagement" that are intended to govern behavior of at least the so-called civilized participants.

And it's good to find that it is an issue on more than a single server. I do hope that the issue draws attention. Thank you for your comments to date.

I do agree with the fact of players not using the maps they get for sailing , if they sink , i do know some of my larger players steal maps, pass them off to weaker members in there guild so that they can sail do to the fact that they can not steal them
but then your right there are also those that just toss them on one of many alts to stop a guild from sailing
There is no good way to handle this ,capping the attempts for maps doesn't help some of the mid range players, but i'm sure tynon must have a way to track how many maps you collect
capping that is the best way
and i woul say that cap should be at least 8 double the sails to account for lost maps on shore

An alternative would be to stop the mega players from "stripping" to allow their mules from stealing maps. We have one guild on our server who not only has multiple alts in his main guild but also has 2 other guilds (that we know of) that they pass onto day and night. The realm we are in is dying because it seems this player and his guild has bought the server. Tynon needs to sort this as pvp is pretty much dead on our server. Pirates is a complete waste of time. Looks like this is pretty much the case on several other servers. Comments like sailing with bigger players does not help when certain players have more money than sense (especially of fair game) and have spent so much money that no one is able to sail again them. This game is becoming a bore. Unfortunately it smacks of Evony where money rules. I do hope Tynon does something to put an end to the abuse of game play.

It's easy to say "Just grow bigger and compete....don't let them sink you." But think about people other than adults with lots of money to spend on the game. There are youngsters and people who either don't or can't spend enough to "buy" the game. They will not be able to grow and not be sunk regularly. It becomes a battle of wealth, not of skill and honor.

The new players, and those who are too small, don't have a chance to grow without spending a lot of money. Perhaps that is by design. If so, then the end game for Tynon is a stalemate, unless enough people come in and try. I would think that enough of the mid-range players who are frustrated by this flaw in the game quitting would create such a gap in the size range that the big players would soon bore of sinking the <100k players, and soon enough, the influx of new players would not support the system. Add that to the fact that at some point, the big players would not need to spend much money, except to compete against each other, and then there would only be a small number of players actually paying to play. Not a good long term plan.

It all comes back to the need to address this issue. There must be a simple way to eliminate the problem.

I agree that something needs to be done about the sink and pass problem. There are some Guilds that use nalts on other guilds to pass maps. Now with being able to get 3 maps the need for 'legitimate' (for the purpose of sailing) stealing and sinking is a lot less that what it sued to be. I there is a limit of 12 PvP attacks PvP in the wild. One solution would be to include attacks in the Caribbean (both steals and sinkings) in that limit.

It's not about growing bigger, it's about playing smarter:

-- If you see the "big guild" that keeps sinking your guild ships has right maps as their common maps, then every ship from YOUR guild should also start with a right map -- don't give them maps they need.
-- Don't sail 1-by-1. Gather 3+ sets of sailing partners and sail all at the same time. Some will sink, but some will get through (ESPECIALLY if you set sail during Baal/Cerb or right after GW).
-- Don't complain to these pirates in private or world chat; they will only sink you more, as it adds to their fun.
-- Finally, if these big players are handing off maps after sinking ships, STOP ROBBING THEIR MAPS WHEN THEY POWER DOWN.

Tynon has done a lot to help smaller players in the Caribbean already: more attempts, more free maps, and half rewards even if you sink.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pirate_1360826

It's not about growing bigger, it's about playing smarter:

-- If you see the "big guild" that keeps sinking your guild ships has right maps as their common maps, then every ship from YOUR guild should also start with a right map -- don't give them maps they need.
-- Don't sail 1-by-1. Gather 3+ sets of sailing partners and sail all at the same time. Some will sink, but some will get through (ESPECIALLY if you set sail during Baal/Cerb or right after GW).
-- Don't complain to these pirates in private or world chat; they will only sink you more, as it adds to their fun.
-- Finally, if these big players are handing off maps after sinking ships, STOP ROBBING THEIR MAPS WHEN THEY POWER DOWN.

Tynon has done a lot to help smaller players in the Caribbean already: more attempts, more free maps, and half rewards even if you sink.

---

One more. If possible wait until late in the day to do the sailing when most of the big players have had their 4 sails done.

No stop spreading these tricks! So hard to get fourth sail now, seems like nobody is sailing with the map I need now lol.

lets change it to submarines that randomly submerge and surface and you can not be sunk while submereged
But at vip 65 you can get depth charges to allow you to sink submerged subs
and at vip 87 you can get nuclear reactor which lets you do your sail in half the time.

Then we have npc ships sailing with maps so you can sink them for a map as well.
but the npcs have to be boats not subs
oh and then we can have npc airplanes that fly across the screen randomly and sink the highest powered ship on the screen

Oh and lets just get rid of maps and not limit the number of sails
if you are attacked you and your partner get in the life boat and continue your journey.
While in life boats sharks may randomly attack you.
The shark will only kill the highest power person in the life boat
If a shark attacks then since only one person is in life boat now it takes twice as long to finish but that person gets double rewards

Roflmao!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattp169

lets change it to submarines that randomly submerge and surface and you can not be sunk while submereged
But at vip 65 you can get depth charges to allow you to sink submerged subs
and at vip 87 you can get nuclear reactor which lets you do your sail in half the time.

Then we have npc ships sailing with maps so you can sink them for a map as well.
but the npcs have to be boats not subs
oh and then we can have npc airplanes that fly across the screen randomly and sink the highest powered ship on the screen

Oh and lets just get rid of maps and not limit the number of sails
if you are attacked you and your partner get in the life boat and continue your journey.
While in life boats sharks may randomly attack you.
The shark will only kill the highest power person in the life boat
If a shark attacks then since only one person is in life boat now it takes twice as long to finish but that person gets double rewards

---

NO.

Airplanes and submarines do not fit into the fantasy theme. The sharks complicate it too much.
Also, there is no Vip 65 or Vip 87.

However, I think people that are Vip should get some rewards.
At Vip 4, you can use a sea turtle instead of a boat, that can submerge like the submarines you described.
At Vip 7 you can get a, "greater," sea turtle that submerges for longer time and moves much faster.

The sea can also have NPC merchant ships that drop maps, higher level NPC can drop, "legendary," maps that reward x10 treasure for the player using the map.

Also, you can visit, "islands," along the way, which has items for sale like fair and play animations of scantily clad Tynon girls dancing. From the, "islands," you can also buy gunpowder for gems, which give you boosts much like world boss boosts for your next naval battle. These can work whether you are attempting to sink an enemy ship or turtle or defending your ship/turtle.

Finally, there should be dragons that fly across and attacks the highest power player. The dragons should be just hard enough where the two strongest players in the guild have a chance of defeating the dragon, in which case they get bonus coins and Lvl 4 gems.

And I like the lifeboat idea. The first time you are sunk, you get a -20% power debuff and continue on in a life boat at half speed.

I'm glad you guys are seeing some humor in it. Let's set something straight. The guild I am in is perfectly capable of managing this situation by constant sinking of the people who play the game this way. It is the top guild, period.....all servers. But that is not my point, nor why I brought this up. We will not stoop to the level of people who take unfair advantage of their strength. This is a game that should be enjoyed by all participants, and I do not, and cannot respect players who do nothing to add to the experience for the beginners in a positive way.

If Tynon refuses to act on this matter, it won't effect me personally. My interest is in helping the smaller, newer players. The more players we have, the more fun we all can have. I do not want to discourage anyone from playing.