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on server 71 - yes we have the most cities - yes we have the biggest players - yes we always help the guild/players to know what to do and how to do it in HR/quest/royal - anyone in our guild needs help they get it ? -
so why are we server killers? cause we have the most loyal and active players? we have them cause everyone is active and helpful
would anyone do different? why is this a curse?
how are u server killers? In the 1st place how does one consider as a server killer?
It's just something players say to the strongest guild when they can't fight the strong guild nor do they wish to leave their own guild. Complaining is all it is, really. If you can't beat them, join them; if you don't want to join them, then so be it -- don't complain about them dominating the server. That's how I see it.... This is a PvP game.
It seems everyone claims to want competition until they actually get it.. Then they cut & run! The real server killers are the ones who ran away.
It has to do with city buffs being so strong that they are necessary to progress. I think people would worry less about not having cities if the buffs were weaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewels
Whattttttt???? This is a pvp game???? Not on server 1, noone is in wild, only 4 atttacks in sailing, and noone in HR. Merge with us please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate_1360826
they were all hoping 71 would merge - when it didn't more banners tonight - we'd love some strong competition :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cnn1_7545681
just pink me when u want to attack someone...Quote:
Originally Posted by cnn1_7545681
ill come to whereever you want.
The irony is that those calling us server killers on 71 are the very ppl that dominated the server way back...when we were underdogs and chose to buckled down and worked hard at growing our toons. We chose to stay, though we could have whined and complained...QQQ all the way home. Eventually they had an ego burst in their guild or a "difference of opinions" that sent them in their separate directions, divided they weren't strong enough to keep the domination of the server going. Our strong guild leadership and focus on building the guild with members that are a good "fit" for the way we play have made a HUGE difference in the quality of our guild. We didn't try to mass merge from other realms or guilds looking for a quick "game changer" on the server, as did these very ppl complaining about us being server killers. We also didn't try to spend our way to first place, as money seems to help, but doesn't necessarily win the game. While these other ppl that used to own all the cities or almost all the cities were busy fighting among themselves, we were gaining power. There were so confident that they could buy a new guild and pay their way to #1 again, when it didn't pan out for them...many of them left the server or just started 20 alts to try to make up for the lost ppl. Eventually it was just easier to put up banners calling us names and pink us with nasty comments instead of doing the work. And still we don't take all the cities on the server, even though we could. Bottom line Jewels...we have a better group of ppl that work together as a team to benefit the guild as a whole (from leadership to members). We know it isn't about one single member alone, a lesson they still haven't learned as proof by the banishes each day and the arena rankings that never seems to change on the other realm. We lift up our members by sharing banish rewards and rotate in the arena to grow our guild...and still manage share cities with other guilds, even with that guild of whiners. So Jewels...please do not take to heart what these people say. You and our guild leaders have made our guild strong by choices you have made, the direction you have taken us and by valuing each member in the guild as important to its success.
Even when we didn't have most of the cities, we were getting insulted. We have went the extra mile in trying to make it balanced. We didn't sink in seas, expect one or two a day, and that was after using what assit gave us and trying chests first. So they started sinking our lower lv members. So we hit back and we get accused of bullying low lv players. We left either baal or cerb at lowest lv and our high players made sure that lower lvs got top 3. We get accused of hording rewards. Our guild members help each other to advance with formation setup and advice, and we work hard spending time on improving ourselves, we get accused of cheating. We are told that the only reason we are were we are is because of coining.Quote:
Originally Posted by perawind_8762856
Honestly, I think its because they have spent allot of money, just as much as if not more than our top spender, and we are still beating them. I believe that they think that since they have spent it that they should be in the top spots, not us, that they have bought that position.
Lets face it, I would be surprised if there is more than 10% playing that hasn't spent at least $5, but buying power isn't going to help if you don't use your gems right.
The simple fact is, weather we spent more or not, we did it better and it galls them. Even if we gave all the cities up and worked to win them again. If we successfully did that, they would still complain that we were 'cheaters' 'only able to win though coining' 'bullies' and 'server killers'.
And if we didn't win them back, we would still be 'cheaters' 'only able to win through coining' 'bullies' and 'server killers'.
The ones complaining will never be happy until they have it all and would still find something to complain about.
Maybe we shouldnt take the server killers brand as a bad thing. Maybe its there way of coming out saying were doing a really great job working together. They probably just wish they could be as well coordinated as us.
I hate u all. this is the simplest post I can say
i hate u too my under cover guild mate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by huling30_3141301
This sounds all too familiar for server 103 as well.
If they can't have the top players in their guild to benefit them, then they get all mad and start drama.
It would be good if there was also cross server guild war. This would make it more interesting.
^This, exactly this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate_1360826
And before everyone bleats on about city buffs (not saying they aren't a factor but in reality it's less of a problem then most think) I played Evony for 3 years. When an alliance or alliance family became a dominant force, it was all that alliance's fault for killing the server, taking all the big players, out farming everyone, taking away everyone else's chance to grow, in Age 2 daring to own all the Historic Cities etc etc. Those who complained never went to join that alliance, they'll rather moan about it instead.
There will always be a 'dominant' guild and no amount of changes will alter that. Jewels congratulations to your guild, whatever is said about uber guilds their dominance wasn't handed to them on a plate it was worked for. I will also extend thos congrats to all uber guilds on all servers. Well done chaps!
Actually there is a change that would force having more that one dtong guild, but it would not be easy to implement. Limit the total amount of power that Guild can have and also the number of top players. This would force the formation of multiple Guild that are competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay
As I said, this is not easy to implement because the limits need to be relative to the total 'active' power in the server and defining who is a 'top player' would be hard.
It would be easier to set limit on how many cities 1 guidl an own. I proposed Guild level -2. Thus lvl 3 guild can own 1 city, level 4 = 2, lvl 5 = 3, lvl 6 = 4, lvl 7 = 5, lvl 8 = 6
But you'll be limiting the top players and forcing them out of guilds. So once a player had built up pass a certain point he/she wouldn't be able to join any guild. Whatever the argument for and and against uber guilds this is a very social game and that kind of implementation would kill it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Ahhh see where your're going with that but the flaw is a lv8 guild would still have the best benefits. Yeah it'll slow it down but it won't change much in the long run. Lv8 guilds tends to have the highest rollers so gain the contribs faster. Once at lv8, will own the lv4s,6,7 and 8 cities. In short the best buffs and the most growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinz1111_6095251
There are ways to make it a bit better for those who cant progress in GWs for whatever reason , but in the end, those with less are still going to bitch and complain becasue they dont have "as much" as the top guild on the server. So I dont really see making changes to GWs a cure for all the drama that takes place here and in game.
True, it is too late to do it on established servers. Maybe it is something that they can do for Tynon II ;) (I wish there was a 'tongue in cheek' smiley).Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay
infact i dont agree,i think instead of GW buffs we should do GW just to battle other guild for coins and credits,and the guild buffs should be gained with guild level,so a lvl 3 guild gets 100% rep bonus built into the guild and so on,so the buffs are attatched to the guild,and |GW just like rag but for coins n creditsQuote:
Originally Posted by skinz1111_6095251
But what would be the point if there no Guild in the server can beat the Uber-Guild?Quote:
Originally Posted by mazter31_8287150
Well there can also be buffs that are given to guilds when they achieve a certain level regardless if they own a city or not? I mean there has to be some reward for achieving level 7 guild even though you may not own any city...
The guild claim goes up, but it is not nearly enough.
So how about adding certain buffs to each guild level achieved and the city buffs can stay as is on top of the guild level buffs. This may work better so that even though a higher power player is in guild lvl 3 .. it makes it tough to beat a guild who is level 7.... played a lot longer... with more members... and have more powerful overall buffs due to the guild level buffs based on the level of the guild.
I guess I am really dense. Could some one please explain to me how changing the buffs will solve the problem of the Uber-Guild? Is it going to make the Guild less powerful? Will it allow other Guilds to be able to compete with the Uber-Guild? If so, how? I just do not see it.
NOw your starting to get it andy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
The buffs over power players PERIOD. they are why players are in teh guilds or realms they are in.
Any solution to increasing competition between guilds usually involves making some change to the buffs
Lots of things have been suggested.
Limiting buffs does nothing but encourages the uber guild to create alt guilds to pass the extra buffs between and slows growth in game slightly.
But if you want to increase competition on new servers and on current ones, the only thing i will see that work is taking the buffs out of the equation by making the guild buff be awarded or bought by guild funds when a guild reaches the appropriate level. Then you can changes guilds without fear of loosing those buffs because other guilds will have them. and as long as they have the level 4 buffs you can do pretty well in this game. The others help depending on your levels. But the level 4 and 3 buffs give the most advantage.
I do not believe taking buffs away should be an option, guilds have worked to obtain them. I dont think they should be limited or reduced. Once again guilds have worked to earn those buffs. SO just give everyone equal access to the buffs by attaching buffs to guild levels, and make gwf be about coin/cred/exp/rep rewards where the winners get more the the losers.
This wont let another guild suddenly be able to overtake an uber-guild. But it could lead to it eventually. It could also lead to members of the uber-guild breaking up and then gwf could be very competitive. It may not work out the way I imagine on every server or on any server. But what we have now leads to uber-guilds which means there's no inter guild competition. SO either live with that fact or change the reason uber guilds are created which is the buffs.
Matt,Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
I think we are saying he same thing here.
give buffs to the guild based on their achieved levels and keep the city buffs which only gives rep, coin, and other benefits that are not related to power.
Also as you pointed out, allow guilds to spend their guild funds to fund, power boosts for the entire guild. I believe this would add significant value to TYNON as people may now use gems to do bigger contributions and get to vip 3 status to do grand investments.
Also I see guilds with 500,000 points... what to do with it once you have reached a certain level and technologies? This would allow for guilds who spend the most to fund the most power (even if they are smaller in over all power due to not having the top players) to compete.
OK, I get it now. You are talking about preventing the problem for new servers and not fixing it on the exiting servers. In that case my idea of limiting the power that a Guild is allowed to have is probably the best solution, but it would never be implemented because it is too complex. I do like the idea that the buffs not be related to the power of the players in the Guild, but there has to be some prizes for winning GW other than bragging rights. If the prizes are significant then we have the same problem. The top players will band together to for a Uber-Guild so that they can get the prizes. If they are not then every one will complain that they should be higher. The prizes, whatever they are, have to be game items (coins. credits, reputation, chips, etc.) and the players that get them will be able to advance faster that the ones that do not.
If what we are trying to fix is GW, how about some sort of handicap system, similar to what is used in CW, where the loosing gets a power increase for the next fight? This will work on new and exiting servers.
This is the best idea I have seen so far. Except I would cap it at 5 cities for both lvl 7 and lvl 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinz1111_6095251
I also like the idea of obtaining a guild lvl achievement buff as you get to higher level of guild regardless if you have a city or not. The city should give you additional buffs to give some perks like as it is right now, but the guild achievement buff should be in the form of power boosting capability for GW. So if you are a lvl 5 guild, you can "PAY" using contribution points to boost your GW overall power by 5% per level at a cost of 1k guild contribution points per level. That way people will spend and contribute more so they can have enough to boost their power during guild wars.
So if you have a guild with 1 - 2 dominant players but low population, they could lose to a higher level guild with more population based on the overall guild war buff obtained through buying the boost for that specific guild war (based on their guild level).
I still like my idea http://bbs.tynon.com/showthread.php?...think-about-it
The level 4 buff basically says to every other guild that doesn't control them "you can't catch me!!!" The coin advantage that buff gives is insane. But tynon isn't completely unbalanced. Ever notice that guild techs are perfectly balanced, while city buffs give way, way too much. I say keep the city buffs, but use the guild techs as a benchmark for where their power should be. My idea on rebalancing is below.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
LV 3 cities should give 5% rep per city.
LV 4 cities should give 10% gold/credit boost for p stone, shrine & killing
LV 5 city should give 1 free treasure chest chance.
LV 6 city should give 40% increased pirate rewards
LV 7 city reduces the gem cost of the 3rd lab from 10 to 0, but it still costs stamina
LV 8 city 40 free stamina.
----------------------------------------------
Imo, this would be a great change because then cities wouldn't widen the gap so much between the guild that controls them and the rest that are trying to compete. Right now, controlling all the gold and rep cities gives a guild a huge advantage that they will outpace anyone trying to compete (all things being equal and everyone playing intelligently that is).
Personally I think server mergers are a band aid solution to servers dying. Servers that merge will still end up with a dominant guild that will control most of the buffs eventually. Those that control them will have huge advantages while those that don't get nothing and many of those that get nothing will leave out of frustration because every day it becomes harder and harder to compete with those that control the buffs that give huge advantages. By making the buffs much smaller, it makes them nice to have, rather than necessary to have. It won't completely eliminate the gap between the haves and have nots, but it will make the game more competitive and allow those who don't have city buffs to catch up and compete with those who do. The end result is that the game will be more exciting and competitive with weaker buffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by perawind_8762856
The problem with that, is if it is used on existing servers, then players will quit. Instead of people suggesting ways of taking away from top players, why not make suggestions that will help supplent the gap the cities cause?
Well Tynon wanted to slow this game down some. They introduced the banish cap for one thing. I'm not saying I don't agree with you that some might leave over this, just as some might have left over the banish cap. But there are always other ways to improve income in other areas to compensate for the losses, but it would require speeding up the game more, and I think Tynon thinks the game progresses too fast as it is. I'm just making a guess at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by heathermh1998_32327
Quote:
Originally Posted by perawind_8762856
That is possible, I don't know. But what I was try to say is that everyone seems to focus on how to keep the top players from getting more by taking away from them. And all of the suggestions have to do with gw. On the servers where there is already a gap, even if gw or city bluffs are changed, there will still be that gap, many to wide to make a difference so the problem will still exist. So if the problem will still exist, why would tynon take the suggestions into consideration when the outcome will most likely cause more complaining and discord?
Let me give some history to put this in perspective.
During beta and when servers 1-5 were launched
We had 5 realms each with its own cities
We had competition within each realm over the cities for a while until the dominant guild arose to take over the realm
This continued on servers 6+ for a while
everything was fine.
SOme of us thought hey we are going to have 1 guild in every realm that owns everything. Maybe we need some inter realm event where the big guilds can fight each other. This type of idea was suggested on forums.
Then things started to change.
Servers began only having 3 realms
and 11+ had GWF changed so that it was inter realm warfare.
Personally I like the original model we have on servers 1-10 But would like to have the top 5 guilds battle daily for something like coins/credits/rep/exp - NOT ANOTHER BUFF
Then have this applied to all servers.
Its a very simple solution. Go back to what we had originally add a new event and be done.
Don't even bother asking what this event would be - It doesnt have to be complicated. - Believe it or not Im out of ideas for today
This takes NOTHING away from anyone
doesnt just hand things to people
and promotes competition.
other then that like i keep saying attach the buffs to the guild level instead of a city
But if you implement my handicap idea for GW the gap closes.Quote:
Originally Posted by heathermh1998_32327
I like Andy's idea, I like Matt's idea.
I read your post heather, and I don't disagree with your idea on how to mitigate the widening gap between dominant guilds and other guilds, but I think its a tad convoluted. I like Andy's idea & Matt's idea as well. Anything to help reduce a widening gap between guilds. Big coiners are one thing (but we are not talking about them here, as they are a separate issue), but when there is a growing gap between players because of overly strong city buffs it actually reduces competition as the strong get stronger while others can't keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by heathermh1998_32327
I think the problem here is that people shift their blame to the guild rather than the source of the server retention problems:Tynon. One guild building up and dominating a server is a symptom of the way Tynon has set up their game. It is too boring and repetitive to retain new players who show up and just begin. The only real PvP action in the game on a server is GW's and it comes with wonderful buffs, but as soon as a guild begins to gain more than 3 or 4 of them they massively outpace the other players on the server. The other players can no longer compete. This isn't the controlling guilds fault, but rather it is Tynon's for not putting contingencies in place. A way to fix this is to put a cap on the amount of Guild cities any single guild can own (I think 5 would be appropriate, and only 66% of a level for lvl 3 and 4). This would even out game-play and make it GW's more competitive giving people something to work for, and the ability to actually stay on relatively competitive grounds.
^^^^ This!!! This is why I'm not blaming the guilds, but rather attacking the heart of the matter. People tend to blame the guilds, but it is Tynon's game balancing that is the real underlying cause of server's dying. Many top guilds even know this is an issue and strive to maintain a balance of power on servers. You know your game has balance issues when top guilds sometimes go out of their way to ensure that others have some cities to prevent a server from dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrthCaedus
I like this suggestion best and considering mergers are now happening, i don't see why light and dark realms couldn't be added during the merge for all serves 11 and up. The addition of a server wide battle function across each of the 5 realms would be fun and this would allow the uber guild on server to also collect a few extra bonuses ontop of the buffs from GW cities held, whilst still allowing for top guild in other realms to also get buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
+2 for this one matt