Calling all Tynon gurus

Ok folks

Normally I got a pretty good grasp on this game. But I am encountering something I can not explain

SO to start with
I went about 10 or more straight banishes averaging 15m damage PER ROUND
SOme rounds were 3m some 30m and everything in between
But the totoal damage divided by number of rounds was 15m damage per round.
This is a significant increase form my 12m damage average per round about a month or so ago.
I have been steadily increasing my veng,adv,intense, and one precise runes
and increasing my spirits/swords/staff

NOw last thorsdays come and I upgrade 4 judgement level spirits about 4-6 levels each
Now my average damage for a 4 banishes drops to 13m
That not too big of an issue, could just be some bad banishes.
Now I upgrade on Saturday a sword 3 levels
and take intensenesss and preciseness on shayd form 11 to 12.
Now my average damage is down to 11m per round

The top acct in my realm does not seem effected. his avg damage is 24-28m per round.

SO what is causing my average damage per round to drop?
And before you all start typing

this has nothing to do with total rounds - this is total damage divided by # of rounds. Which should stay consistent and go up with increases to swords/staff/spirits/and offensive runes.
Yes having dramatically fewer rounds could make a difference because you dont get a chance to have as many MEGA rounds. But that is not what is going on the drop is consistent regardless of if we have 16 rounds or 27 rounds.

this has nothing to do with other people in the realm, I refuse to believe in the theory that one persons damage effects the damage of another player. People increasing their damage output can effect everyones total damage but not their avg damage per round.

SO anyone out there who has experienced this and found out the reason and how to correct it?

The only thing that I am aware of where bigger is not better in Banish is the Morale rune in Calvin. Making it bigger can trow the timing off and you end up with a lot less damage. The other thing that can happen is that your heroes were missing before and they are not now and that means that his morale builds up faster. If that is the case you need to adjust Calvin's rune to account for it.

The only way to tell what is happening is by watching the battle and see what is happening different from before.

Observing every round and screenshotting would be helpful.
Sometimes a misplaced stun can throw a round off, so the preciseness could've done it.
Other than that, I'm kinda clueless as well.

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Originally Posted by Andy

The only thing that I am aware of where bigger is not better in Banish is the Morale rune in Calvin. Making it bigger can trow the timing off and you end up with a lot less damage. The other thing that can happen is that your heroes were missing before and they are not now and that means that his morale builds up faster. If that is the case you need to adjust Calvin's rune to account for it.

The only way to tell what is happening is by watching the battle and see what is happening different from before.

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smh.

does the fact that i said i upgraded 4 judgement levels spirits by x levels not indicate to you that i dont use calvin

I do not see why it would. I use Calvin on Banish only and I give it the Justice/Judgement equipment that I take off one of my other heroes when I change formations.

Calvin isnt strong for banish after you pass a certain size.....

jkwong might be right (still unlikely), but it would help to know who you are using. I use a herja so my form doesn't him morale, so that won't ever happen to me.

Noob answer you don't want to hear (I would assume you checked over your formation several times):
Sometimes the runes rollback for me... i.e. I put them in place, but they don't update the effect. I have to refresh to see they are back in the rune inventory and place them again. Made my khan not have a righteousness and took me 7 rounds to notice...lol

I have found that too much stun if you are "not" using herja can impact you. Some times between the two stunners, they keep it stunned before your sub can come in and your main alternates doing skilled hits and normal hits which eventually builds up morale.

If you use Herja, then it should not matter as much.

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Originally Posted by explorertynon103_3174937

I have found that too much stun if you are "not" using herja can impact you. Some times between the two stunners, they keep it stunned before your sub can come in and your main alternates doing skilled hits and normal hits which eventually builds up morale.

If you use Herja, then it should not matter as much.

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Normal hits???

MattP simply does not do normal hits. He is skillfully striking Baal with every round on all of his mighty warriors.

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Originally Posted by Andy

I do not see why it would. I use Calvin on Banish only and I give it the Justice/Judgement equipment that I take off one of my other heroes when I change formations.

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If you have 4 Lightbringer+ spirits there is no need to include Calvin in the line-up, since your heroes do not commit regular attacks which will increase Baal's morale.

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Originally Posted by Yelsha

Normal hits???

MattP simply does not do normal hits. He is skillfully striking Baal with every round on all of his mighty warriors.

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That's with herja... which is what he's saying.

I realized my Lance hasn't been criting as often. Time to bump that advantage up a notch! :)

ok heres my line up

All heroes have Judgement weapons and spirits rest is justice
main level 11 venge level 10 adv level 9 precise
herja
shayd level 12 intense and precise level 10 reliability
lance level 12 adv and venge level 9 precise
cianna level 12 venge and advantage level 10 precise
thucy level 12 venge and advantage level 9 precise

Maybe they nerfed crits vs. 1.25B baal?

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Originally Posted by Yelsha

Maybe they nerfed crits vs. 1.25B baal?

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If that were teh case it would be effecting everyone in the realm, not just me. This is mainly effecting me. Other top players are doing tehre normal avg damage per round or higher

Don't look at the rounds, look at the individual hits.

Is your Calvin hitting higher than before?
Is your Shayd hitting higher than before?

Dont know man , I am too tired to think it through but my damage ranges wildly from .50 perecnt to 4 percent per hit on the 1.25 billion bosses. Dont know if that helps lol.

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Originally Posted by hjam_8879649

Dont know man , I am too tired to think it through but my damage ranges wildly from .50 perecnt to 4 percent per hit on the 1.25 billion bosses. Dont know if that helps lol.

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we all have these huge ranges we are capable of because of stuns.
So I can hit for like 3.5m to 40m+
But stuns are a fixed rate
So sure its possible for one day to average out at 14m damage per round
and the next day to avg at 12m and the next day to go to 15m

But I am constantly going lower and lower every day.
It seems teh more offensive power I add the worse I do

I've seen threads about this before and I don't think we ever really figured it out.

Honestly, idk what it could except tynon glitching and not equipping equipment or runes right. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.

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Originally Posted by Revan

I've seen threads about this before and I don't think we ever really figured it out.

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i almost feel like putting my tinfoil hat on and saying tynon devs are messing with my act

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Originally Posted by mattp169

i almost feel like putting my tinfoil hat on and saying tynon devs are messing with my act

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Good plan. :cool:

I have been saying for months that upgrading offensive Runes, Gear and Talents throws off Banish damage. I go through the same thing every week, and have been for months... I've given up trying to figure it out for several different reasons, but the biggest is that it makes so sense what so ever and is so frustrating that if I think about it for over 5 mins, I feel like breaking my monitor. I deal with it, and the damage level's out after a few weeks.

I think Tynon penalizes players that complain in forums too much. I noticed that after I started incorporating negativity in my posts, my Lance seemed to go from critting 100% of the time to about 1%. Ok guys, now that we've figured it out, lets only post things about how great the game and the devs are.

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Originally Posted by Yelsha

I think Tynon penalizes players that complain in forums too much. I noticed that after I started incorporating negativity in my posts, my Lance seemed to go from critting 100% of the time to about 1%. Ok guys, now that we've figured it out, lets only post things about how great the game and the devs are.

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Well in that case.......

Man i love this game soooo much!!! every single aspect of it is just plain awesome.

....... so heres hoping you rtheory is correct and i am inundated with 100 gem stakes, countless frags, never failing sancts and stars, awesome shuffles in the tavern, HR bosses droppign the plan i desire most, 1st place in banish and lastly <1mil power opponents in Champ Wars lol......

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Originally Posted by mattp169

we all have these huge ranges we are capable of because of stuns.
So I can hit for like 3.5m to 40m+
But stuns are a fixed rate
So sure its possible for one day to average out at 14m damage per round
and the next day to avg at 12m and the next day to go to 15m

But I am constantly going lower and lower every day.
It seems teh more offensive power I add the worse I do

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Ok right, I will say this though, its seems to me that I can do as well most of the time with just 80 percent buff then with 100 percent buff , almost seems like getting that extra 20 percent doesn't do much at all...some days....more often then not.

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Originally Posted by mattp169

I went about 10 or more straight banishes averaging 15m damage PER ROUND
Some rounds were 3m some 30m and everything in between
But the totoal damage divided by number of rounds was 15m damage per round.

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I would put away the tinfoil hat. Everything you've claimed is within a statistical variance considering the low % stun rates of ~33%.

If you were really concerned you'd be taking screencaps consisting of; your power, the damage you done, the time on 0% hp/provide us the number of hits you performed.
It's very hard to see what's going on without hard evidence, everyone is known to bend the truth or round numbers to suit.

I am shocked that MattP with his monstrous heroes and gear and power is only doing 11M per round right now. I declare shenanigans!

Reading what you have there, you need to get your preciseness on cianna up. Increase to 11 and you will see a huge difference. At 12 its even better. The average shoots up.

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Originally Posted by jrrtolley_7332441

Reading what you have there, you need to get your preciseness on cianna up. Increase to 11 and you will see a huge difference. At 12 its even better. The average shoots up.

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Stun and hit rates fall into different percentages. Every hero with the ability to stun has been given a certain stun chance percentage variance. Increasing preciseness really doesn't make much difference.

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

Stun and hit rates fall into different percentages. Every hero with the ability to stun has been given a certain stun chance percentage variance. Increasing preciseness really doesn't make much difference.

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I beg to differ. It makes a big difference. We have tested it on our server and the higher your preciseness, the better average you get. There are fewer bad rounds.

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Originally Posted by jrrtolley_7332441

I beg to differ. It makes a big difference. We have tested it on our server and the higher your preciseness, the better average you get. There are fewer bad rounds.

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ya see, ive been wondering if during one of these recent patches, they quietly without telling us tied stun rates into hit rate or break or something, havent been able to test it. but it does seem people with higher hit rate and break seem to get more stuns in then those without. could be my imagination.

Try a level higher preciseness on Cianna first and have her hit 3rd. I'm sure you will see a big difference.

Lancelot Cianna Shayd
X X Main
Herja X X

That works for me.

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Originally Posted by jrrtolley_7332441

I beg to differ. It makes a big difference. We have tested it on our server and the higher your preciseness, the better average you get. There are fewer bad rounds.

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If I remember correctly from a tread months ago the explanation given was that because they are hitting more then they stun more but the % stun remained the same. In my experience Sha has 'good days and bad days' so it is hard to tell if this is true or not. I do not watch the battles because I have to refresh on every fight (like most of you do) to avoid the 'long battle' penalty.

my shayd is maxed on preciseness so thats not the issue andy.

we are talking physical heroes. its being suggested that a higher hit rate gives them a better ability to stun

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Originally Posted by jrrtolley_7332441

I beg to differ. It makes a big difference. We have tested it on our server and the higher your preciseness, the better average you get. There are fewer bad rounds.

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Cianna's stun rate was nerfed in the big November patch. Before that she stunned almost with every skill attack. Hit rates have little to do with it as they nullify the effect of dodges and decrease misses from mages. Preciseness possibly does help improve critical and stuns but the effect is minimal.

The only thing that can vary stuns (as far as I can tell) is resistance (block). The higher resistance (block) an enemy has, the less likely a stun will land. Banish bosses typically have low resistance and equipping a break rune can help up your stun rate.

Shayd's stun rate was also nerfed extensively last year

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

Cianna's stun rate was nerfed in the big November patch. Before that she stunned almost with every skill attack. Hit rates have little to do with it as they nullify the effect of dodges and decrease misses from mages. Preciseness possibly does help improve critical and stuns but the effect is minimal.

The only thing that can vary stuns (as far as I can tell) is resistance (block). The higher resistance (block) an enemy has, the less likely a stun will land. Banish bosses typically have low resistance and equipping a break rune can help up your stun rate.

Shayd's stun rate was also nerfed extensively last year

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Don't think block helps. Pretty sure it was stated that nothing can vary stun rate (but devs).

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

Don't think block helps. Pretty sure it was stated that nothing can vary stun rate (but devs).

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Probably, but the higher you go in HR, the less likely both Cianna and Shayd score a stun. In PvP this makes no difference to these small variables and the stun rate is fixed.

Attachment 799

ok dont know how clear this will be

but it shows for todays cerebus

I got 227.3m damage
I did 16 rounds
final fight triggered before i got my 17th in
you can see the timer is at 40:16 to show the max rounds we could have had is 17
specwar got 17 in
his total was 463.6m
so hes getting his usual avg of 27m as i said before his ranges between 24-28
my avg was 14.2m a round

NOt bad at all today. very respectable and what I expect based upon everything I was doing prior to these past 4 or 5 days.

Ill try and screen shot some more and see.

BUt I dont need to exaggerate my damage or round my numbers much.

And yes I was at 80% and I assume spec was at 100%

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

In PvP this makes no difference to these small variables and the stun rate is fixed.

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Morgan,
when you say stun rate is fixed, what does this mean? Is there a cap to how much +hit will impact stun rate on a mage like shayd and aphro?
Thank you

Ok before this thread gets completely side tracked.

The whole thing with stun rate and hit ratebbeing tied together is a KNOWN FACT but ONLY for MAGES

ANd this is only to the common sense principle that if you want a mage to stun more it needs to actually hit.

So naturally your mages will stun more often if they have a higher hit rating, because the hit rating will allow them to land more hits and less misses.
This does not mean hit rate increases stun rate. It just means a higher hit rate gives mages more opportunities to stun because the higher a mage's hit rating the fewer misses it gets.

There really hasnt been any proven correlation between hit rate and stun rates with physical heroes. Many have speculated that this might be the case.
In fact dawnseeeker has said that there is no way to increase your stun rate on any hero