Dont like the new GW

soooo for all of you that have spent real money, hours building, labs, grinding etc... and gained the cities thru hard work.. only to have them handed over to alt guilds and the little people because they want things to be "fair" yet they don't bother to encourage those people to build, they penalize the ones that have built and spent... how many of you are going to keep building and spending... leveling up 27 mil... 30 mil 60 mil.. only to be one shotted by a 3 mil player? We own all cities thru Jengu on server 106... I am 27.5 mil... and I was taken out in 1 battle by a 16 mil player.. that was the only fight I was in... our biggest player at 69 mil was taken out by a alt sitting at 3.4 million... so tell me... is it worth it to continue to build and spend? I find NO point to it.. no matter how big I am.. if a 3 mil player can just run over me.. then whats the point? big pretty numbers that do me no good?? so what say you all?

I say ya'll are getting upset to soon, give it a couple of days, once things start to pan out, who knows, this just might actually work. Or it might not. Either way, we cant tell on 1st night alone.

well for all of tynon saying that they don't allow alts etc.. they now just made alts and alt guilds the most important thing on any server... gratz tynon

quit crying cause dread beat you

There is no point whining because you lose to a smaller player. It happens, so get over it. And, as for alts I've noticed a lot of the top players have them and milk them for coins and get even bigger. Tynon allow it though so I guess its a legal loophole. Because if it wasn't allowed I'm sure Tynon would ban those who do it.

The only reason a really big player would lose to a really small one, is their durability is very low, or has hit 1.

I do like the new penalties in gwf..
now its more about tactic and Teamplay there than just
"Hi, im a high player and can solo a whole guild" thingie.

Can you explain how the GW changes encourage alts?

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Can you explain how the GW changes encourage alts?

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One alt of 5k power can reduce the durability of a built up account of 120M power. So essentially, a 5k power alt can deal a permanent 6M damage to a 120M player. Simply making 10-30 alts can cripple several well-built players.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Can you explain how the GW changes encourage alts?

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Because every fight won decreases the winners durability by 5, 6 hits no matter what reduces a players power to 70% 20 reduces them to 0. It is possible then for a group of 20 alts with just enough power to join a guild to take out a player of any power, even PR, just by hitting them. Guilds on both sides are now encouraged to create massive amounts of alts to beat down their opponents through shear numbers. now a guild of 15 actives can create 30 alts and completely wipe the floor with a guild that massively outmatches them.

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Originally Posted by DrthCaedus

Because every fight won decreases the winners durability by 5, 6 hits no matter what reduces a players power to 70% 20 reduces them to 0. It is possible then for a group of 20 alts with just enough power to join a guild to take out a player of any power, even PR, just by hitting them. Guilds on both sides are now encouraged to create massive amounts of alts to beat down their opponents through shear numbers. now a guild of 15 actives can create 30 alts and completely wipe the floor with a guild that massively outmatches them.

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I see. Thanks!

The power bonus was one thing; that gave a chance to legitimate guilds who worked hard but just came to the game late or are faced with a guild they could beat if it weren't for just one vastly overwhelming player (which happens on every server from what I see personally and have heard). However, the durability thing does, as others said, just reward those same dominant guilds who already have guilds full of alts for extra maps, extra coins and extra credits. Now not only can they defend their cities by placing blocking bids from these alt guilds, these alt guilds can be used to cripple their enemies as well.

#1-- How does someone attack with 20 alts? Do they have 20 browsers? (the whole "alt" label is very commonly accused upon newer players and less-active players).

#2-- 15 ppl + 30 alts (45 total) is still no match for a guild with 45 people. (and 45 is being generous, as there are guilds with 60-70 active people). And if your server population is so low that a 15 player guild is normal .... shouldn't you be grateful you still have competition? :confused:


If you want to discourage alts and not the active players, then the solution is to disable the OFFLINE players (who collected guild benefits) from being in the GW. (ie: no more automated defenders. Have to show up.)

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Originally Posted by Cuddles_1461020

#1-- How does someone attack with 20 alts? Do they have 20 browsers? (the whole "alt" label is very commonly accused upon newer players and less-active players).

#2-- 15 ppl + 30 alts (45 total) is still no match for a guild with 45 people. (and 45 is being generous, as there are guilds with 60-70 active people). And if your server population is so low that a 15 player guild is normal .... shouldn't you be grateful you still have competition? :confused:


If you want to discourage alts and not the active players, then the solution is to disable the OFFLINE players (who collected guild benefits) from being in the GW. (ie: no more automated defenders. Have to show up.)

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it is a match when the defending guild has to defend 6 cities and can only spare 8 people. Second it's called tabs...when i used the 20 alts example it would only take 10 of those people running 2 of them, that's 3 tabs, not too difficult.

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Originally Posted by vannarachael_4324042

soooo for all of you that have spent real money, hours building, labs, grinding etc... and gained the cities thru hard work.. only to have them handed over to alt guilds and the little people because they want things to be "fair" yet they don't bother to encourage those people to build, they penalize the ones that have built and spent... how many of you are going to keep building and spending... leveling up 27 mil... 30 mil 60 mil.. only to be one shotted by a 3 mil player? We own all cities thru Jengu on server 106... I am 27.5 mil... and I was taken out in 1 battle by a 16 mil player.. that was the only fight I was in... our biggest player at 69 mil was taken out by a alt sitting at 3.4 million... so tell me... is it worth it to continue to build and spend? I find NO point to it.. no matter how big I am.. if a 3 mil player can just run over me.. then whats the point? big pretty numbers that do me no good?? so what say you all?

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tynon meddles to much trying to balance the game, for example, you invest in a hero" then after built they nerf it. Silly to me, but hey I quit spending because of that, now I have no problem with the game

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Originally Posted by DrthCaedus

it is a match when the defending guild has to defend 6 cities and can only spare 8 people.

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You have 6 rival guilds attacking you at 6 different locations. (this also infers that you hold 6+ cities)
And yet you are entitled enough to feel that you should win. Hmmmm.

Can you remind me again why you're complaining?

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Originally Posted by Cuddles_1461020

You have 6 rival guilds attacking you at 6 different locations. (this also infers that you hold 6+ cities)
And yet you are entitled enough to feel that you should win. Hmmmm.

Can you remind me again why you're complaining?

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I think it's more to do with guilds overloading GWs with alts. You can't tell me that playing with alts entitles you to win either.

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

I think it's more to do with guilds overloading GWs with alts. You can't tell me that playing with alts entitles you to win either.

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(I'm not on his server). I can understand the alts issue. I just have yet to see a 6-guild coordinated attack on a 7th (dominating) guild. All 6 invasions fully staffed.

When we lose a city, we say Congratulations! You outmaneuvered us, outnumbered us, overwhelmed us, wore us down, and now the land is yours. Well done! (Hint: In Real Life, War is not so much about power as it is about numbers, tactics, and organization. Even the greatest warriors don't stand a chance to a well-organized army.)

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Originally Posted by Cuddles_1461020

(I'm not on his server). I can understand the alts issue. I just have yet to see a 6-guild coordinated attack on a 7th (dominating) guild. All 6 invasions fully staffed.

When we lose a city, we say Congratulations! You outmaneuvered us, outnumbered us, overwhelmed us, wore us down, and now the land is yours. Well done! (Hint: In Real Life, War is not so much about power as it is about numbers, tactics, and organization. Even the greatest warriors don't stand a chance to a well-organized army.)

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Every time a player fights he/she loses 5 durability. Hence that player can only manage 20 fights before they are scratched. All an attacking guild has to do is load up on alts because there is no way any guild that is defending can beat them unless they are holding very few cities. This is what the issue is, that's not warfare it's a numbers bout.

Whether they are alts, or smaller players, the system made smalls soooo much more powerful that now it's slanted the other way. It needs addressed. I don't believe this was tested before introduced was it?

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Originally Posted by DrthCaedus

it is a match when the defending guild has to defend 6 cities and can only spare 8 people. Second it's called tabs...when i used the 20 alts example it would only take 10 of those people running 2 of them, that's 3 tabs, not too difficult.

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Its a good thing if guilds can't easily defend 8 cities at once. You have to prioritize and use strategy. And each of the fights will be a lot tougher. Sounds like a good thing overall.

It depends on the server, Dawn. On mine, the dominant guild also controls a known alt guild with around forty members so that they can harvest maps from themselves.

A player on my server at 50m took out our guild (9 players) we had,total of around 350m.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Its a good thing if guilds can't easily defend 8 cities at once. You have to prioritize and use strategy. And each of the fights will be a lot tougher. Sounds like a good thing overall.

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Dawn

Seriously you dont get that this over powers small players and alts?

Cut the changes in half
and we get the effect you were going for without all the complaining
5% power boost per city
2 durabilty for a win
5 durabilty for a loss

There no reaosn why 1 50m power player sohuld take down a guild of ccombined power of 350m power

Perhaps the durability loss should be tied to the power of the opposing player in the event of a victory. Loser has greater power than the victor, -5 durability to the victor; loser has 75-100% of the victor's power, -4 durability to the victor; loser has 50-74% of the victor's power, -3 durability to the victor; loser has 25-49% of the victor's power, -2 durability to the victor; loser has 24% or less of the victor's power, -1 durability to the victor. This would reflect the tiring nature of conflict while not allowing a swarm of twenty one million power players to eliminate someone like Execdude from a guild war entirely on their own.

If this were combined with the power bonuses afforded to guilds doing battle against seriously entrenched foes (those with more than three cities) it could balance things relatively well without skewing it in favor of a horde of low powered alts.

This changes give to much power to alts for sure..
Also, in the Terms of Conditions: c. You shall not have more than one Account at any given time, and shall not create an account using a false identity or information, or on behalf of someone other than yourself.

So why are there even alts in this game? I personally hate them, and at 50m power I don't have any alt, which is very rare when I look at players at my server.. Some of them even have 5 or 6, just for the CW and farming them after.. I think the real problem is that there are actually alts allowed on servers.

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Originally Posted by amaka3128_738684

This changes give to much power to alts for sure..
Also, in the Terms of Conditions: c. You shall not have more than one Account at any given time, and shall not create an account using a false identity or information, or on behalf of someone other than yourself.

So why are there even alts in this game? I personally hate them, and at 50m power I don't have any alt, which is very rare when I look at players at my server.. Some of them even have 5 or 6, just for the CW and farming them after.. I think the real problem is that there are actually alts allowed on servers.

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It's not that they are allowed. They are expressely banned. The problem is because this is a free to play game it is very difficult to track players and determine if someone is an alt solely off of IP addresses. It takes weeks of data tracking player interaction, active times, etc. to determine with even a little certainty. Ucool simply does not have the staff, especially with the massive alt farm that is Evony to keep track of.

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Originally Posted by DrthCaedus

.....especially with the massive alt farm that is Evony to keep track of.

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What?!?!?! alts in evony....well i never....

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Originally Posted by mattp169

There no reaosn why 1 50m power player sohuld take down a guild of ccombined power of 350m power

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Welcome to my server. My life. I'm tired of soloing entire guilds. It's boring as hell. (Even sitting at B watching them attack in swarm/waves as my durability goes -1 every fight, also boring).

I'm so glad we lost a city with these new changes. FINALLY we have something to battle over. A challenge!

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Originally Posted by charles.molnar_8339810

Perhaps the durability loss should be tied to the power of the opposing player in the event of a victory. Loser has greater power than the victor, -5 durability to the victor; loser has 75-100% of the victor's power, -4 durability to the victor; loser has 50-74% of the victor's power, -3 durability to the victor; loser has 25-49% of the victor's power, -2 durability to the victor; loser has 24% or less of the victor's power, -1 durability to the victor. This would reflect the tiring nature of conflict while not allowing a swarm of twenty one million power players to eliminate someone like Execdude from a guild war entirely on their own.

If this were combined with the power bonuses afforded to guilds doing battle against seriously entrenched foes (those with more than three cities) it could balance things relatively well without skewing it in favor of a horde of low powered alts.

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+1. I had the same idea but a different scale.
My scale was different because of the following Question ... how do you differentiate between the new player and the alt?
Answer: the new player is between 5% to 25% your power. The alt is under 5% your power.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Its a good thing if guilds can't easily defend 8 cities at once. You have to prioritize and use strategy. And each of the fights will be a lot tougher. Sounds like a good thing overall.

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Can someone please explain to me why this is a good thing? I don't see the logic at all behind this change. All that's going to happen is that lower power guilds are going to fight over rep cities. The big guilds will keep the coin cities, jengu, and the last two cities.

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Originally Posted by sh0tyme83_7854100

Can someone please explain to me why this is a good thing? I don't see the logic at all behind this change. All that's going to happen is that lower power guilds are going to fight over rep cities. The big guilds will keep the coin cities, jengu, and the last two cities.

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You have no idea the arrogance and entitlement buried in the psyche of some of those guilds - especially the ones who have historically ridden the coattails of one or two extremely strong players. They aren't even smart enough, in many cases, to realize that just ceding one or two level three cities would allow them to keep all the rest, so they keep battling to try to hold them all and instead losing the ones that really matter.

Or maybe it's not that they aren't smart enough. Maybe they're just still too full from the cornucopia from which they've been drinking while riding those previously mentioned coattails and have no room to swallow their pride.

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Originally Posted by Cuddles_1461020

+1. I had the same idea but a different scale.
My scale was different because of the following Question ... how do you differentiate between the new player and the alt?
Answer: the new player is between 5% to 25% your power. The alt is under 5% your power.

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I like this too.

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Originally Posted by vannarachael_4324042

the little people because they want things to be "fair" yet they don't bother to encourage those people to build, they penalize the ones that have built and spent... how many of you are going to keep building and spending...

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People wanted more balanced guild wars, since one guild controlling all the cities gave an unfair advantage to that guild and made it very hard to keep up with that guild and compete.
I would say the 10% (for each city above 3) buff for teams going against guilds controlling more than 3 cities is a good one to reintroduce competition to some servers where it was lacking.

The other change I'm a little more fuzzy on.

Lost first battle to a guy 11 mil power lower than me. So far our guild has lost half our cities. How is this fun or rewarding? Fair?.. hardly. Our top players cant defend a city. Lame.

well i spend a tone of money on this game and if guild wars is not returned back to what it was before the patch i am finding a new game. I left KOC on facebook and came here. KOC died cause of this exact same thing. i played koc with money for 4 years. This is silly I pay for power to beat other people. GW is about power and 10k people beating me is a joke. If i walk from this game and find a new one i will not come back. this GW is no longer about power its about creating as many alt accounts as you can. on my server there are 7 alt guilds from the 3 main guilds. this is silly change it back or lose me and everyone else in my guild giving you 2 week maybe less. we are looking for new games now.

Our guild has a few members at vip5 one higher - Its not the money
We were winning on skill and dedication to improving our toons - sharing tips on runes/formations/heroes/etc.
Our core group came from another server where we could never win cause 1 guild was just way to strong and spent tons of money.
On this server we were able to share what we learned and got some really excellent people in the guild who wanted to spend the TIME to work.

This patch is just gonna make more alts and serious players (money or not) rethink their time spent - when winning isn't a option or skill anymore.

agreed and alot of people are done spending until they fix this massive screw up they have made it ok for those who barley play and dont spend and made it **** for those who spend money and work on building up tynon will make alot of there bigger spenders quit the game over this crap

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Its a good thing if guilds can't easily defend 8 cities at once. You have to prioritize and use strategy. And each of the fights will be a lot tougher. Sounds like a good thing overall.

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You aren't seeing the bigger picture. Soon every guild will be full to the max player limit with alts because they are so valuable and a big part of the strategy of the new guild wars. I would like for you to clarify what you mean by "strategy" and "a lot tougher." I know this is not what u intended to mean but you almost make it sound like the game wants alts to be a viable strategy unless you completely misunderstood what you are replying to. If u really think these changes only made defending 6 citys(my guild has never defending more than that so cant comment on 8) "a lot tougher" and not completely and utterly impossible beyond a shadow of a doubt then there is a gap between the actual game play and what u think the game play is. I truly hope the city buffs are fixed( the math does not add up with what is claimed in the in game mail) and that the durability is put back to how it was before the patch. And please let us abandon Koleton.

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Originally Posted by steveshort59_4035466

I truly hope the city buffs are fixed( the math does not add up with what is claimed in the in game mail)

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The email is not clear. If one side is getting a buff, it should be displayed during GW.

Here is a possible solution to alts. Make each battle have a maximum number of players (edit: per team). It could be 10,15, or 20. That way 5k alts don't swing a battle that much.

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Originally Posted by Cuddles_1461020

(I'm not on his server). I can understand the alts issue. I just have yet to see a 6-guild coordinated attack on a 7th (dominating) guild. All 6 invasions fully staffed.

When we lose a city, we say Congratulations! You outmaneuvered us, outnumbered us, overwhelmed us, wore us down, and now the land is yours. Well done! (Hint: In Real Life, War is not so much about power as it is about numbers, tactics, and organization. Even the greatest warriors don't stand a chance to a well-organized army.)

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I have...and we still lose...all the power moved to one guild on our server. New rules make it possible for other guilds to take some of their Nine cities. For those saying it encourages alts...is saying it encourages cheating. I feel it encourages discouraged players to be more active. It's nice to know a well-staffed guild has a chance...especially when 4 or 5 other guilds cooperate to split the juggernaut. We'll prob never have more than one city, but happy to help break the monopoly.