What's next for Tynon?

What's next for Tynon? As it is:


Heroic Realm

All the new Heroic Realm bosses are being beaten by players of lower and lower power. I don't think the devs realized that players of less than 200m power could beat Golden Dragon or Skeleton Wyrm in Heroic Realm. The power of a beefed up Khan + Queen Penth makes for a frontline that can absorb almost anything thrown at them.

Quests

The Quest bosses are far tougher than those in the Heroic Realm. One problem: A lot of players breezed through the questline when they were still under development, killing quest bosses at 6-7m power only. The next Sirius maps should be released when fully made, unable to be accessed when they're still not fully developed.

Worthy of mention: I am proud to see this boss defeated finally. He is the toughest boss, aside from Prophet Ezekiel, in the whole game so far.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2v85szk.jpg

Royal Arena

Scipio is still a challenge for most players, but again, a beefy Khan + Queen Penth combo will take him down. Prophet Ezekiel is the only real difficult hero left to fight. In time, 200+m power players will start taking him down.


What's next? Just some suggestions.

- Make the next set of Royal Arena / Quest / Sirius Heroic stand up to life drainers. Seeing Khan + Queen Penth combos on almost all the replays is almost getting boring. Either make the new bosses be impervious to Vampiric Strike (cannot be drained of life), or make the bosses do enough damage to make life drainers meaningless (Berzerker skill at least).

- Randomize the enemy monster mob formations. Now this will really be fun. Will really make a player improve his heroes, and think of different strategies to combat the defending formation randomness.

- Continue using other bosses as subs, like in the Malmepholis quest fight. That really made that fight interesting and challenging.

All in all, so far so good Tynon. More power. And awaiting further challenges.

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Originally Posted by Herby

What's next for Tynon? As it is:



Scipio is still a challenge for most players, but again, a beefy Khan + Queen Penth combo will take him down. Prophet Ezekiel is the only real difficult hero left to fight. In time, 300+m power players will start taking him down.

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Oh ye of little faith. 300m+ ????? Ill get him well before that.

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Oh ye of little faith. 300m+ ????? Ill get him well before that.

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Challenge accepted!

I'd also love to see you do the Malmepholis Twins, if you didn't fast-track that quest boss.

Are we talking about the same thing becuase tiny already beat prophet at 258m power

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Are we talking about the same thing becuase tiny already beat prophet at 258m power

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Damn i didn't see that.

NOW Tynon really need to give us really difficult monsters lol.

Cool thread and good read. We definitely have more challenges in store for you!

Herby, what formation did you use to beat them?

Most servers do not even have 200m+ or even 150m+ power players yet. Even on server one, there is only about 10-20 200m+ power players.

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Originally Posted by Yelsha

Most servers do not even have 200m+ or even 150m+ power players yet. Even on server one, there is only about 10-20 200m+ power players.

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exactly. SO what?

Should someone on say one of teh newest servers already be able to beat prophet unless they coined to 200-300m power? The answer for me is NO.
So server 1 shows a good bench mark of what aver
age good full time players can do. We dont have any execs or Prs but we have some coiners who spend quite a bit. Im sure theres 3-5 vip 8s or higher
Thers a few vip 6s
a huge number of vip 5s and 4s
ANd lot of people who are vip 0 -3

We got a great mix of players who for the most part get along with each other. We are all very active on the server. SO if the oldest sever has its top 12 just now hitting 200-300 range all. And that is what is needed for prophet, skeleton wyrm etc. Then I think they set the new bosses and heroes "Just Right" Not too easy, not too hard. A good challenge.

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Originally Posted by mattp169

exactly. SO what?

Should someone on say one of teh newest servers already be able to beat prophet unless they coined to 200-300m power? The answer for me is NO.
So server 1 shows a good bench mark of what aver
age good full time players can do. We dont have any execs or Prs but we have some coiners who spend quite a bit. Im sure theres 3-5 vip 8s or higher
Thers a few vip 6s
a huge number of vip 5s and 4s
ANd lot of people who are vip 0 -3

We got a great mix of players who for the most part get along with each other. We are all very active on the server. SO if the oldest sever has its top 12 just now hitting 200-300 range all. And that is what is needed for prophet, skeleton wyrm etc. Then I think they set the new bosses and heroes "Just Right" Not too easy, not too hard. A good challenge.

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I agree fully, though I think I'd like to see another mini-game released too. Something for us higher guys to earn coins/rep on. There are many idea's here on the forums, but my personal favorite is Herby's idea from a few months ago. An event where 3-5 players can enter their Leader into team, and fight a "mini" quest or group of other players. Only leaders will fight, no other heroes. Something like this would be interesting and really weed out players fast.

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Originally Posted by Deucalion

I agree fully, though I think I'd like to see another mini-game released too. Something for us higher guys to earn coins/rep on. There are many idea's here on the forums, but my personal favorite is Herby's idea from a few months ago. An event where 3-5 players can enter their Leader into team, and fight a "mini" quest or group of other players. Only leaders will fight, no other heroes. Something like this would be interesting and really weed out players fast.

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That would definitely make those skill scrolls far more valuable.

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Originally Posted by Wildflower

Herby, what formation did you use to beat them?

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The Twins?

The player who beat them used:

Adam Aphro Khan
Maria Leader x
x x x
Sub 1: KT
Sub 2: Ezekiel

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Originally Posted by Herby

The Twins?

The player who beat them used:

Adam Aphro Khan
Maria Leader x
x x x
Sub 1: KT
Sub 2: Ezekiel

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Ah 2 subs already.
Thanks for the info.

I got him with the following form:

x Rhize QueenP
x x x
Herja Ada Main

Sub 1: Khan
Sub 2: Maria

Main had minor gear on.
Dodge seems to help.

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Originally Posted by Herby

What's next for Tynon? As it is:


Heroic Realm

All the new Heroic Realm bosses are being beaten by players of lower and lower power. I don't think the devs realized that players of less than 200m power could beat Golden Dragon or Skeleton Wyrm in Heroic Realm. The power of a beefed up Khan + Queen Penth makes for a frontline that can absorb almost anything thrown at them.

Quests

The Quest bosses are far tougher than those in the Heroic Realm. One problem: A lot of players breezed through the questline when they were still under development, killing quest bosses at 6-7m power only. The next Sirius maps should be released when fully made, unable to be accessed when they're still not fully developed.

Worthy of mention: I am proud to see this boss defeated finally. He is the toughest boss, aside from Prophet Ezekiel, in the whole game so far.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2v85szk.jpg

Royal Arena

Scipio is still a challenge for most players, but again, a beefy Khan + Queen Penth combo will take him down. Prophet Ezekiel is the only real difficult hero left to fight. In time, 200+m power players will start taking him down.


What's next? Just some suggestions.

- Make the next set of Royal Arena / Quest / Sirius Heroic stand up to life drainers. Seeing Khan + Queen Penth combos on almost all the replays is almost getting boring. Either make the new bosses be impervious to Vampiric Strike (cannot be drained of life), or make the bosses do enough damage to make life drainers meaningless (Berzerker skill at least).

- Randomize the enemy monster mob formations. Now this will really be fun. Will really make a player improve his heroes, and think of different strategies to combat the defending formation randomness.

- Continue using other bosses as subs, like in the Malmepholis quest fight. That really made that fight interesting and challenging.

All in all, so far so good Tynon. More power. And awaiting further challenges.

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Where is this guy?? I have not seen any new HR or quest.

End of current quest. I beat them a couple of months ago so it was probably nerfed then because I didn't even have the first alt player...........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattp169

exactly. SO what?

Should someone on say one of teh newest servers already be able to beat prophet unless they coined to 200-300m power? The answer for me is NO.
So server 1 shows a good bench mark of what aver
age good full time players can do. We dont have any execs or Prs but we have some coiners who spend quite a bit. Im sure theres 3-5 vip 8s or higher
Thers a few vip 6s
a huge number of vip 5s and 4s
ANd lot of people who are vip 0 -3

We got a great mix of players who for the most part get along with each other. We are all very active on the server. SO if the oldest sever has its top 12 just now hitting 200-300 range all. And that is what is needed for prophet, skeleton wyrm etc. Then I think they set the new bosses and heroes "Just Right" Not too easy, not too hard. A good challenge.

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Yep so I disagree with Herby because even older server players are just now getting close to being able to beat the last bosses. To make the bosses harder only benefit players like Riot.

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Originally Posted by becalvert_1151817

End of current quest. I beat them a couple of months ago so it was probably nerfed then because I didn't even have the first alt player...........

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Ahhh ok. Yes I went thru that a very long time ago, so forgot who was in there. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Yelsha

Yep so I disagree with Herby because even older server players are just now getting close to being able to beat the last bosses. To make the bosses harder only benefit players like Riot.

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Sorry, but I disagree with Yelsha. I am sure what I am about to write will inflame a few people who feel they are "entitled" for one reason or another, but here goes.

The fact that people like Blayd and Exec and now add Avalaria hitting 700mil + power using only Judgement and a few sirus pieces should tell you something. The fact seems to be; you need to be at a certain progression to be able to beat those bosses.

Here is an example of what needs to be fixed: At first until the formation could be discovered, Prophet was not beatable. Once the formation was found, then people sort of "found a work around" to beef up only Queen P and Kahn to beat Prophet. That should not be the case. You shouldn't be able to leave Flav and Herja (2 heros in your formation), pretty much almost naked and un-runed to beat that boss, and so further thought needs to go into how these bosses should be put in place in the formation. Maybe let them all start with full morale and certain Rune levels on them to be at par. During the entire fight, not one NPC will skill. That is just wrong.

These heroics and quest areas should not be a "gimme" to people who cry foul because it is too hard and have not progressed to the rightful power bands and levels. It only makes sense that to be able to beat a boss for the "next" sirus, you should have prior sirus on your heros, and also be at certain rune level.

Yes this would benefit the higher powered players more. But that is because a lot of money and time was spent on accelerating their powers. If this game should be played to it's true form, many people would be waiting a long time before they can get to their gears (unless they accelerate by coining).

I realize this view does not make me popular with many folks who feel they have been playing longer and know more about the game, and feel they are "entitled" to the end game offerings. But the easy gimme's should be stopped.

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Originally Posted by Riot

The fact seems to be; you need to be at a certain progression to be able to beat those bosses.

Here is an example of what needs to be fixed: At first until the formation could be discovered, Prophet was not beatable. Once the formation was found, then people sort of "found a work around" to beef up only Queen P and Kahn to beat Prophet. That should not be the case. You shouldn't be able to leave Flav and Herja (2 heros in your formation), pretty much almost naked and un-runed to beat that boss, and so further thought needs to go into how these bosses should be put in place in the formation. Maybe let them all start with full morale and certain Rune levels on them to be at par. During the entire fight, not one NPC will skill. That is just wrong.

These heroics and quest areas should not be a "gimme" to people who cry foul because it is too hard and have not progressed to the rightful power bands and levels. It only makes sense that to be able to beat a boss for the "next" sirus, you should have prior sirus on your heros, and also be at certain rune level.

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So.... no strategy allowed? Then people would truly have nothing to use to compete against you.

It doesn't matter how heavily geared or powered you are. If you can beat it, you can beat it.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

So.... no strategy allowed? Then people would truly have nothing to use to compete against you.

It doesn't matter how heavily geared or powered you are. If you can beat it, you can beat it.

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Strategy absolutely should be considered. But not to a point where it can be beat without properly geared up and rune'd up formation. As in all games, to beat a boss to get to your next gear level, you should be properly geared with preceding gears along with the right strategy. There is a delicate balance between the two. Unless Tynon wants this game to end in 6 months, they need to think about the next areas as high-end gears are released. I remember it would take me 4 - 6 months to gear up by raiding for next set of equipment. But with this game's philosophy of being able to $$$ your way to the top, it is not the same for all players unfortunately. This is what attracts certain players and also detracts certain players.

EDIT: Also you point something out here that is important to recognize. This game should not be about competing against a certain player alone. It should be so that you are competing and be challenged with the game at the rate you are comfortable with. If you so choose to compete with the top players, there are a few ways. 1. is to spend a lot of money to accelerate your power. 2. keep cranking along and wait it out until you do get the gears and runes, and hope by then the content would have stopped progressing. But to try to compete with people who have spent big by spending significantly less, and crying foul when you can't beat them, does not compute.

All I know is that the bosses should not be able to be beat at really low powers because of Herja and a super beefed up Queen P.

Oh and the lowest power win on Scipio Africanus is currently 117 mil power. The Queen P in the replay has well over 120k hp and deals close to 120k damage with vampiric strike. It is a bit of an extreme case but it illustrates the whole Queen P might be over powered thing.

Another example is Genghis Khan. If I need to say any more about that, then you are clearly not that far in the Royal Arena.
The way the game is set now all you need to have is one or two sets really powerful attack gear fine.

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Originally Posted by Revan

All I know is that the bosses should not be able to be beat at really low powers because of Herja and a super beefed up Queen P.

Oh and the lowest power win on Scipio Africanus is currently 117 mil power. The Queen P in the replay has well over 120k hp and deals close to 120k damage with vampiric strike. It is a bit of an extreme case but it illustrates the whole Queen P might be over powered thing.

Another example is Genghis Khan. If I need to say any more about that, then you are clearly not that far in the Royal Arena.
The way the game is set now all you need to have is one or two sets really powerful attack gear fine.

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Agree.

Also as you pointed out about Queen P, from what I can see, Queen P and Kahn are very off balance. Kahn is such a waste of a top end hero. He needs to be revamped to be useful PVP and at least out-do Queen P in PVM fights.

Let's see if Tynon corrects this.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Strategy absolutely should be considered. But not to a point where it can be beat without properly geared up and rune'd up formation. As in all games, to beat a boss to get to your next gear level, you should be properly geared with preceding gears along with the right strategy. There is a delicate balance between the two. Unless Tynon wants this game to end in 6 months, they need to think about the next areas as high-end gears are released. I remember it would take me 4 - 6 months to gear up by raiding for next set of equipment. But with this game's philosophy of being able to $$$ your way to the top, it is not the same for all players unfortunately. This is what attracts certain players and also detracts certain players.

EDIT: Also you point something out here that is important to recognize. This game should not be about competing against a certain player alone. It should be so that you are competing and be challenged with the game at the rate you are comfortable with. If you so choose to compete with the top players, there are a few ways. 1. is to spend a lot of money to accelerate your power. 2. keep cranking along and wait it out until you do get the gears and runes, and hope by then the content would have stopped progressing. But to try to compete with people who have spent big by spending significantly less, and crying foul when you can't beat them, does not compute.

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My problem with what you are saying is who gets to decide what 'proper' is? People should be free to choose w/e works.

p.s. Every since CWF came out, people have been eyeing the top player. We aren't just picking on you, we're calculating how long until we get a shot to win this thing.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

My problem with what you are saying is who gets to decide what 'proper' is? People should be free to choose w/e works.

p.s. Every since CWF came out, people have been eyeing the top player. We aren't just picking on you, we're calculating how long until we get a shot to win this thing.

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To me and many other games I have played, the word "proper" is used in the following reference: "properly geared and runed" and that you have someone who is at the immediate previous gears to be able to beat the boss for the next set of gears. So someone in Light bringer gears should not in any shape or form be able to beat boss for the sirus set regardless of what formation you want to use.

Thus the combination of properly geared and runed as well as good strategy to play a part in beating the next hero's or quest line. On the flip side, you can have most of your let's say Sirus set, but may not be able to beat the boss for the next one if your strategy is bad.

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Originally Posted by Revan

All I know is that the bosses should not be able to be beat at really low powers because of Herja and a super beefed up Queen P.

Oh and the lowest power win on Scipio Africanus is currently 117 mil power. The Queen P in the replay has well over 120k hp and deals close to 120k damage with vampiric strike. It is a bit of an extreme case but it illustrates the whole Queen P might be over powered thing.

Another example is Genghis Khan. If I need to say any more about that, then you are clearly not that far in the Royal Arena.
The way the game is set now all you need to have is one or two sets really powerful attack gear fine.

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What's wrong with having 2 main attackers? It's just a different choice of distributing attack power; it's not like I put in less effort to beat Khan, it was just in a "smarter", more efficient manner.

I think that bosses will always be able to be beaten at continuously lower powers. It's inevitable, and just because Queen P is currently the popular way to win doesn't mean it's a hack or game-ruining strategy. When given an unchanging boss formation to battle repeatedly day after day, it's easy enough to find a way to beat it. PvP is much harder to master, so anyone dissatisfied with HR and Royal Arena can focus on that aspect of the game.

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Originally Posted by Riot

To me and many other games I have played, the word "proper" is used in the following reference: "properly geared and runed" and that you have someone who is at the immediate previous gears to be able to beat the boss for the next set of gears. So someone in Light bringer gears should not in any shape or form be able to beat boss for the sirus set regardless of what formation you want to use.

Thus the combination of properly geared and runed as well as good strategy to play a part in beating the next hero's or quest line. On the flip side, you can have most of your let's say Sirus set, but may not be able to beat the boss for the next one if your strategy is bad.

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You already need the previous level to progress in gears. I'm imagining a more drastic change in which players are forced into spending resources (coin + cooldown time or something) in a fashion they don't want or need to.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

You already need the previous level to progress in gears. I'm imagining a more drastic change in which players are forced into spending resources (coin + cooldown time or something) in a fashion they don't want or need to.

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Agree. However, if you remember, this was not the case when there was the Maria bug, where people were using maria for full heals every turn with sub par gears to beat out the next bosses to get geared up, even with sub-par runes (to add to that).

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Originally Posted by Riot

Agree. However, if you remember, this was not the case when there was the Maria bug, where people were using maria for full heals every turn with sub par gears to beat out the next bosses to get geared up, even with sub-par runes (to add to that).

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They still had to beat the previous boss. Hopefully no more bugs like that will be available though as it really does mess up the fairness of the game.

But right now, people are free to use whatever they want to beat a boss. Whatever combination of formation, gear, runes, talents, hero choice, luck, etc that works for them. Having some system that says you must get runes to here, and gear to here, and talents to here... really limits the potential in the game. Management of resources is most of the game for me. If that is determined for me, there is no point.

Edit: I realize I'm making a bunch of assumptions of what you are suggesting, since I'm not really sure what you are suggesting. Correct anything that's wrong.

I don't see the problem with people being able to beat a boss at a low power range. That does not make them more powerful in PvP than someone who has coined in a major manner, and will never allow them to compete at that level.

I don't think they should nerf Queen P. She is not too buffed. Adam is OP in PvP; Queen P in OP in in PvE. To each hero their stengths, and it is up to players to make intelligent choices that will allow them to progress faster. I can assure you that those who have a super buffed Queen P do not necessarily progress faster than those who invest in other heroes. Just because someone has beaten a boss at a really low power does not mean that he has beaten that boss earlier than someone with more power. That's a false assumption that people who beat bosses at a low power progress faster.

Well first of all my personal feeling is that they really messed up on new heroics, I think it was not a smart to make players sit around on the hunches and wait and wait to build up 40-70 mil more power just to defeat one of the new bosses. It is a fast way to get players bored with the game and to start looking other places for the gaming entertainment. Yes for the top few % of the players it was a challenge to figure a form and strat to win aginst most did not have to build millions of millions to the power. On my server 2 players have defeated titanoboa one had 113 mil power the other had 138 mil power. It took them almost 4-5 weeks to build enough power to even think about it. The next player even close to Titanoboa has 85 mil power and this player has been done with poision lord for almost a month. They cant advance in the game until power is build up its not a speedbump its a road block. Instead of putting such a jump in power they could have added Legendary Bosses they could drop legend plans gems chips ect. But this is just a minor problem and I am sure many on here will think that I am wrong and the mega power jump on heroics was fine.

I think that before they even think about adding more heroics or royal duel bosses they need expand the things that someone can do in a day. Right now most burn through or ignore Heavens palace, speed through dailies, auto fight banishes and then sit there looking at the screen wondering what else to do since they cant even dent any bosses or sit there looking at the screen because they completed everything. I personly would like to see a added event there are a few posted in the forums that are very good ideas. More needs to be added to the game to keep players interested and not to just pumping out heroic bosses with godly like power. Some of these events could challenge all power types of players not make it imposable for all but the upper few. So I guess I am trying to say whats next for tynon to add to keep ALL players interested.

Very true ChickenWing.

Adam is definitely OP for PVP as Queen P may be OP for PVE. But maybe instead of nerfing Queen P, how about make Kahn a little more effective.

As for Adam, it is interesting that his card in CWF is only 8k tickets and he is more effective than any other hero sold in the shop. Even Lance is 11000 tickets. Yet, he is the primary hero everyone builds their PVP formation around. It seems for such a hero, there seems to be a bit of an imbalance with over use of adamanti. It would be good to see him either calibrated a bit more fairly given he hits every opponent. He can do around 80 - 90k+ to each opponent which seems a bit much considering even a single target heros don't do that much. Don't get me wrong, I love my adamanti, but a bit more balance may allow for other "types" of pvp formations to emerge.

There is also a bit of a unbalance with the mage class as well. Mages hit for so much less than adamanti even fully maxed out. Since they are both all square hitting AOE hero's I would think they would need to do similar damage. On top of this, mages can miss a whole lot more than adamanti every will. So think about Smoulder. He misses and does way less damage, also mages don't crit.

Heres the thing imo with this debate of Queen P being OP. Shes actually not. The last few heroics and RA minions have millions of HP. Yet even a queen P with a level 112 Judgment rellc and lvl 112 constitution and some decent chips and saints has 215k ish hp. SO how is she really OP. When you have to fight minions with 8 times or more your max HP on any hero at this point in the game, Queen P is exactly what is needed to compete. The problem is not the heroes we have. It is the limited strategy employed with the PVE bosses. The basic strategy is to add lots of HP to everything to make it harder. Instead of employing strategy for us to devise and counter. Lab bosses are better designed in this way. So until they decide to add a different way to make bosses more difficult then we are stuck using vampires and stunners and LOTS OF LUCK to win.

It would be interesting to have more Pvp type forms in pvm. So... lower hp, higher damage, and variety of heroes and variable formations.

Since this thread is an open thread about what's next for tynon, I will just say, they need to do something a bit more drastic with the game to make it more involving and group based reward.

Like defeat a boss with the guild as a guild to win a piece of gear or a special rune. Each boss spawning once every 3 days or so giving out "random" runes or plans for the whole guild to share and distribute. Then we can have guild reward system where people can use contribution points to bid on the rune or plans that drop, or even high level chips you can right now only get through casino.

I'd love to have a shot at rolling against my guild members for a lvl 10 chip drop off a boss. eventually everyone will get 1 or 2 chips like that. With the amount of sockets we need to fill, it would takes YEARS to fill them all competing against the entire guild to get it. Now that would be so much fun.

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Originally Posted by Riot

It seems for such a hero, there seems to be a bit of an imbalance with over use of adamanti. It would be good to see him either calibrated a bit more fairly given he hits every opponent. He can do around 80 - 90k+ to each opponent which seems a bit much considering even a single target heros don't do that much. Don't get me wrong, I love my adamanti, but a bit more balance may allow for other "types" of pvp formations to emerge.

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I don't disagree with that, but man, would it be a major bummer if they nerfed adam. People, including myself, have spent months building him for PvP because we know he's good. If they nerfed him that I wouldn,t want him badly in my PvP form, I think I'd stop playing. All my purple medals go to him and he's my highest sainted hero. To me, that would mean months of useless work.

People have built their heroes and strategies with the current laws of the game in mind. If they change them, a lot of people will stop playing. Just think of how people reacted when the patch had changed Saffron's skill for an offensive one (until it got readjusted).

edit: when I say I don't disagree, it's because the idea would be good had people not spent months building up already. most ides from tynon are good if implemented on a new server, but ruin the gameplay of the older servers.

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

I don't disagree with that, but man, would it be a major bummer if they nerfed adam. People, including myself, have spent months building him for PvP because we know he's good. If they nerfed him that I wouldn,t want him badly in my PvP form, I think I'd stop playing. All my purple medals go to him and he's my highest sainted hero. To me, that would mean months of useless work.

People have built their heroes and strategies with the current laws of the game in mind. If they change them, a lot of people will stop playing. Just think of how people reacted when the patch had changed Saffron's skill for an offensive one (until it got readjusted).

edit: when I say I don't disagree, it's because the idea would be good had people not spent months building up already. most ides from tynon are good if implemented on a new server, but ruin the gameplay of the older servers.

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Yes, I would agree I would be bummed too. My Adamanti is fully dominion 5 with 18 stars and i fixed his saints and got rid of all the bad ones which took me probably over 10k gems to fix. However, I would not like to see him nerfed so badly, just slightly adjusted so he is not the main dominant hero in the entire formation. Something just doesn't sit right with that. I'd like to also see heros like smoulder or maybe his replace in the next upcoming title hero to have significantly raised dmg and almost do away with misses (since mages cannot crit). With admanti you not only do tons of dmg, you also crit the hell out of everyone. So ofc, no matter what mages you put in place, it cannot compete with adamanti. Or put in crit for mages! Then maybe Mulan and Aphro would be used more.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Very true ChickenWing.

Adam is definitely OP for PVP as Queen P may be OP for PVE. But maybe instead of nerfing Queen P, how about make Kahn a little more effective.

As for Adam, it is interesting that his card in CWF is only 8k tickets and he is more effective than any other hero sold in the shop. Even Lance is 11000 tickets. Yet, he is the primary hero everyone builds their PVP formation around. It seems for such a hero, there seems to be a bit of an imbalance with over use of adamanti. It would be good to see him either calibrated a bit more fairly given he hits every opponent. He can do around 80 - 90k+ to each opponent which seems a bit much considering even a single target heros don't do that much. Don't get me wrong, I love my adamanti, but a bit more balance may allow for other "types" of pvp formations to emerge.

There is also a bit of a unbalance with the mage class as well. Mages hit for so much less than adamanti even fully maxed out. Since they are both all square hitting AOE hero's I would think they would need to do similar damage. On top of this, mages can miss a whole lot more than adamanti every will. So think about Smoulder. He misses and does way less damage, also mages don't crit.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I would agree I would be bummed too. My Adamanti is fully dominion 5 with 18 stars and i fixed his saints and got rid of all the bad ones which took me probably over 10k gems to fix. However, I would not like to see him nerfed so badly, just slightly adjusted so he is not the main dominant hero in the entire formation. Something just doesn't sit right with that. I'd like to also see heros like smoulder or maybe his replace in the next upcoming title hero to have significantly raised dmg and almost do away with misses (since mages cannot crit). With admanti you not only do tons of dmg, you also crit the hell out of everyone. So ofc, no matter what mages you put in place, it cannot compete with adamanti. Or put in crit for mages! Then maybe Mulan and Aphro would be used more.

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1. Adam has already been nerfed. He's fine as it is. The reason why he seems to be better than the other heroes is that he is the hero almost everyone first builds up. Are you getting concerned that other people's Adam's have begun to hit hard enough to kill your troops in CWF?

2. QueenP and Khan are also fine as it is. They're necessary to finish off the middle level PVE bosses and quests. Khan was never meant to be a PvP hero, you have to accept that Blayd.

Instead of nerfing these heroes, the next set of bosses in quests, HR and Royal should just be made harder and have stronger AOE attacks.

Tynon set a good precedent with the new mage boss in the Tomb of Dragon King quest. Simply having strong QueenP/Khans won't cut it. You need to make everyone in your team strong enough to survive the AOE attacks.


I miss the times of old, when the boss would do a Thousand Strikes skill shot, and everyone in your formation would die. lol.

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Originally Posted by Herby

I miss the times of old, when the boss would do a Thousand Strikes skill shot, and everyone in your formation would die. lol.

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That would be awesome if the bosses started doing that again.

Also, they should start at full morale or 200 morale or something crazy like that.

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Originally Posted by Herby

1. Adam has already been nerfed. He's fine as it is. The reason why he seems to be better than the other heroes is that he is the hero almost everyone first builds up. Are you getting concerned that other people's Adam's have begun to hit hard enough to kill your troops in CWF?

2. QueenP and Khan are also fine as it is. They're necessary to finish off the middle level PVE bosses and quests. Khan was never meant to be a PvP hero, you have to accept that Blayd.

Instead of nerfing these heroes, the next set of bosses in quests, HR and Royal should just be made harder and have stronger AOE attacks.

Tynon set a good precedent with the new mage boss in the Tomb of Dragon King quest. Simply having strong QueenP/Khans won't cut it. You need to make everyone in your team strong enough to survive the AOE attacks.


I miss the times of old, when the boss would do a Thousand Strikes skill shot, and everyone in your formation would die. lol.

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Well Herby, I would be lying if I said that I am not concerned about Adamanti's impact in CWF, because I am. My main concern is that Adamanti is over used and at the end, people will all wind up with the same PVP formation and build as a result of it.

Let me explain why I am saying this:

Having my entire line up at the same maxed stars, runes, and well sainted, I can with hands on experience say that Adamanti seems unbalanced; even comparing to other heros (some significantly higher rep and royal challenge heros) with same level of gears, runes, and saints. I am also talking from both receiving end as well as giving end of the fight. Now let's compare it to other heros in the line up that does not lose morale. Even with this advantage, Adamanti still does significant more damage over all other heros (with all same level runes, gears, etc).

My other point is with mage classes. No one uses it in CWF. Why? Simple:
1. They do not crit
2. They do significant less damage (Mulan compared to KT), (Smoulder compared to Adamanti)
3. They "miss" a ton where as melee classes do not miss much
4. But one argues melees can be dodged, but then you can counter with +hit runes. With "miss" there is no counter it seems. and +Hit I do not agree impacts the "miss" as one would traditionally believe it to be. Otherwise why would a 300+ hit Aphro miss 4 times in a row? Makes no sense since melees will never be dodged 4 times in a row.

Thus, my conclusion is, mages needs to be boosted in a different way. Allow for crit, allow for an attribute to counter "miss" maybe this is +hit, but then they need to program it in, and increase their damage output since they cannot use +skill attack. Thus the magic attack dmg should be "doubled" vs. Physical melee counter part. This may help put Mages back on the map.

Do all this, and you can leave Adamanti alone. Without this, you have essentially over powered 1 melee hero who crits, hits, doesn't miss, and hits all targets, with added power of both phy + attack skill. Morale you may be wondering. Mages do not use morale, while Adamanti is crippled when it does not have the morale. But then let's take a simple fight, where adamanti get's hit normally in the course of the fight and get to skill each round. Against PVE it may be different, but for PVP there is a difference. One can also point out the use or the need for support class that does no damage to assist Adamanti and thus make up for the added damage from adamanti. Ok, this is fair, but then let's look at this more closely; since the main class also needs morale and is a single hitting hero (unless one gets sweeping slash which hits weak and only 3), normal non-morale hit from main is weaker than adamanti's non-morale hits. Need I say more? How is it that Seraph 5 with 5 more hard hitting saints with same black smith hit (in normal hit mode) hit weaker than an aoe class like adamanti when they both have no morale? There is an imbalance. Adamanti should not be hitting harder than your main with no morale given all things are equal. Thus, there seems to be a bit of an over power adjustment to be looked at.