This is why I consider it unfair to that .001%. If everyone was having an issue with it, it would be balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
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This is why I consider it unfair to that .001%. If everyone was having an issue with it, it would be balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
Based on what you're saying, if we removed the cap, your group would still do 75% of the total damage, but would no longer have any reason to hold yourselves back so it could actually result in lower power players earning less coins, instead of more.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
I understand that you want a challenge and I've passed this feedback on to the developers, but I doubt simply removing the cap is something that will happen. And please don't pretend that you are not the main one who will benefit from this change. Not that its bad for you to benefit, but let's be honest here. :)
I benefit in proportion to the same amount everyone else benefits don't kid yourself. The cap is hurting everyone. Lets not kid anyone on that fact. Lifting it will help everyone progress in the game. When more and more people have 2 subs, the people without 2 subs will hurt more and more and more. That is what people are not getting. You released the second sub. To me that means its time to remove the cap. This changes the balance of the game. That combined with more and more players are powering up and doing more damage in a banish. SO the cap which supposedly balanced things is now unbalancing them and needs removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnseeker
You really dont get that when spec and I are have 2 subs soon in a banish. the players who were at #10 on the banish leader board which now get 1-2m coins a banish will start getting 250k-1m coins a banish. How does this cap help them? Instead remove the cap, we go to 6.25b banish and those players get 1.25m-5m coins a banish. With the cap in place they may stop doing banish. Our banishes have already dropped form 50-60 players a few months ago to 25-35 players because of the cap and other reasons.
The cap is hurting players not balancing anything.
Please I challenge you dawn to post a thorough explanation of how in the dev's minds this cap BENEFITS players and BALANCES anything.
Maybe there is something I and many many others are missing
And as I have said there are other ways to do this then a cap, which gets us to an in between of the two ideas.
More banish levels without caps.
Change the timing so it takes beating it in 5 mins to get the bigger banish.
These and many other fine suggestions have been given time after time.
Capping people is punishing their success.
I mean i get why every banish has 5 times the HP and rewards. It makes sense. It had to be done that way using the timing formula.
SO change the timing formula - change it so that you dont have to multiply everything by 5. The event can be tweaked in small minor ways, that provide more opportunity for all players while not allowing players to be running away with 200m coins in a 6.25b banish. Of course i see no reason why at some point - maybe in a 156.25b banish where 200m coins would be unreasonable for a player to get.
Let me offer a new idea taht may solve many issues at once
Banish becomes like RAG. Where as it pop opens a window. You still have rounds where you can change things you can chose to close the window and let banish run in the back ground. Even if you watch a round the next round happens on time. SO lets say your round 1 takes 8 mins to play out visually, while your watching it rounds 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,and 9 play out. Everyone gets the same number of rounds no matter what. If you make changes between rounds those changes take effect on the next round.
Then we make the boss have UNLIMITED HP.
we use the following formula to calculate rewards per round.
1 coin for every 10k damage
1 credit for every 25k damage
1 rep for every 12500 damage
Which these are the numbers for a uncapped 1.25b
we could adjust them slightly but you get the idea. Perhaps lower them all significantly and apply all guild buffs/tech/RA bonuses etc to them and add a level multiplier.
Then finally we replace last hit with 1st strike. A few seconds before round 1 starts someone is randomly given first strike which does nothing but give them the 10m coins
This could solve a lot if not all the issues of banish
Actually the cap won't be a problem if not for CWF. Every event in Tynon is server-contained except for CWF. As Tynon is a game of competition, I would suggest that nerfs that affect one server greatly would be compensated by buffs. Therefore, a suggestion would be to raise the CWF crowns to 10% per crown. Would be a temporary fix ;)
It's very simple how it balances things. Servers' like Herby's are very crowded during banish. Their top players probably do not earn 100M because the competition is probably too strong, so the cap does not affect them. Such servers benefit from the cap because it sets them on a similar income as the other, less competitive servers. Remove the cap, and the players on these servers will fall behind in CWF.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
That is sort of correct. The cap will effect the more populated servers the most. where small population servers may never feel its effect. But it does not set the income the same across all servers. In fact it give smaller population servers an edge in coins/creds/rep over higher population servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenWing
See people think this cap was about CWF - and it may have been - but it was about CWF it was to help players like blayd and LC not give people a chance to catch them. If they really put this is place to help people catch blayd and similar players You know what Im going to try to stop saying blayd so much- it sounds like Im picking on the guy and Im not trying to- So if this cap was to help players catch up to SUPER COINERS on small population servers then it failed miserably. In fact it had the opposite effect.
Matt, just drop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnseeker
The uCool Community Manager has spoken in both threads.
They aren't removing the cap.
You have to find another way to get more gold and credits lol.
You know, you can actually coin up and buy them.
I propose to have this thread and all other similar banish cap threads be closed please?
herbyQuote:
Originally Posted by Herby
stick to your own thread. this one is mine.
You high jacked it and created yet another banish cap thread - lol thanks for helping bring my point to light even more. I mean if I was so off target why did you bother to make your own thread to dispute me.
And Dawn said hes bringing my concerns to the devs. ANd they arent just my concerns - most if not all of Server 1 wants that cap gone. Server 4 wants changes to the cap - you admitted that a change in the cap is justified. Most who say there is a need for a cap say there is a need to change it. So squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a major issue for the game even if most dont realize it.
You and I can't catch Blayd with only coin :)
You may need to check your math, but if no cap existed and you got 100mil coin per banish = 200 mil coins per day. Shrine with all 3 owned will get you around 40 - 60 mil coins for a low gem fee. That comes to around 240 - 260 mil coins per day. In a week that is around 1.68bil - 1.82 bil per week.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
Now it costs roughly 240mil to get a rune from lvl 11 -> 12 which would be around 7 - 7.6 runes going to lvl 12 in a week. It would take no time to get to lvl 12 runes for all in a month.
Now the Black Smith. From lvl 70 - 110 it is around 23bil for all 7 heros. That is 12.6 weeks of banish at the coin rate I mentioned. 3 - 4 month you are done with all your Black smith to 110 and 115 in another 2 - 3 weeks.
So the coin is a big issue and the cap cannot be raised for 6.25 banish to that level. I suggested a modest 125 mil to give an additional 25 mil to the pool vs. the 100mil for 1.25 bil banish.
The game is finished when everyone maxes BS and Runes. Thus, the cap cannot be lifted.
Thanks, and it is time to close all future banish cap limit threads.
But then you also posted on Herby's thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
I think these threads are non-productive and it just causes un-needed drama.
Server 3 and 5 also want the cap gone, just chiming in.
I Like Matt's idea of infinite HP banish without the need to refresh.
But maybe adjust income so it works something like:
1-100M damage: 1 coin/0.4 credits/1 rep every 10k dmg
100M-250M damage: 1 coin/.../... every 12.5k dmg
250M-500M damage: 1 coin... every 15k damage
500M-1B damage: 1 coin... every 20k damage
1B-2B damage: 1 coin... every 25k damage
2B+ damage: 1 coin... every 50k damage
And 0.4 credits and 1 rep to every coin.
That would be an awesome idea that ALL players would equally like and find awesome and would be uncontroversial and not subject to debate like the whole cap issue since every sane player would support such a Banish.
BUT that changes Banish, which is such an important and fundamental part of the game too radically, hence it will never be seriously considered. But its nice to daydream...
Sorry MattP, I will do some thread hijacking here and ask Dawn: You want players to have rewards coming in from a variety of events. Players think Rag is one of the most fun events but complain that the rewards make it not worth it to even boost. Many players have raised the issue about improving Rag rewards. Can you transmit this to the developers?
Hey ExplorerTynon, your idol Exec want the cap gone so you are supposed to want the cap gone since you are their lapdog.Quote:
You may need to check your math, but if no cap existed and you got 100mil coin per banish = 200 mil coins per day. Shrine with all 3 owned will get you around 40 - 60 mil coins for a low gem fee. That comes to around 240 - 260 mil coins per day. In a week that is around 1.68bil - 1.82 bil per week.
Now it costs roughly 240mil to get a rune from lvl 11 -> 12 which would be around 7 - 7.6 runes going to lvl 12 in a week. It would take no time to get to lvl 12 runes for all in a month.
Now the Black Smith. From lvl 70 - 110 it is around 23bil for all 7 heros. That is 12.6 weeks of banish at the coin rate I mentioned. 3 - 4 month you are done with all your Black smith to 110 and 115 in another 2 - 3 weeks.
So the coin is a big issue and the cap cannot be raised for 6.25 banish to that level. I suggested a modest 125 mil to give an additional 25 mil to the pool vs. the 100mil for 1.25 bil banish.
The game is finished when everyone maxes BS and Runes. Thus, the cap cannot be lifted.
Thanks, and it is time to close all future banish cap limit threads.
Ok so for all of you saying the cap is a good thing.
Check out this screen shot of a newer server.
How is the cap helping when this happens because servers are dead?
Attachment 881
One guy does 99% of the damage on a 1.25b banish and gets last hit.
This cap is not to stop this, it is clearly designed to punish high population servers.
I agree caps need to go.
But it brings up another issue of the heavy players outclassing most everyone else and making the play pretty lopsided so that no one else can generally advance marginally better against the top few.
I think that once a certain level of power is achieved (and income too) that everyone might be better served if those top player are encouraged by some kind of progressive cap to leave the server and transfer to an elite level of server that is exclusive to only the best of the best (maybe use CW as a global way of accessing relative rank). This would give a migration path to advance the elite players to compete with each other and free up the competitive space to mid tier players to advance more assertively. Dominance really demotivates active play of others IMHO.
Just ideas.
Ok I know exactly what you are saying. The fly in the ointment is this. - When elite players move to elite server- even if they keep their acct with all its power etc. they then would lose access to the guild they wer einQuote:
Originally Posted by RiverBummer
and its buffs
its members
all your friends etc.
But this idea is sort of what the did with UA. It was fun for a few days. Now im bored of it. The same would probably happen with elite servers as well.
The cap is 100 mil per banish. This screen shot shows a guy receiving 109 mil and so this is before there was a cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
This only proves Cap is a good thing.
He probably only gets now 50 - 60 mil.
This ss is from TODAYQuote:
Originally Posted by Riot
it shows the added 10m from last hit
Which server is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
And by eliminating the cap, how much coin then would this person have really received? 190 mil?
NOQuote:
Originally Posted by Riot
134m with no cap.
Its a server in the 90s -the player has asked to stay anonymous so Im trying to do so.
But whats the point of the cap when this happens? All it is doing is punishing servers who have more players versus those with less players.
So im not seeing how the cap helps people. It hurts more then it helps. Show me how it really helps anyone? ALl I see are negatives - not one postive
It is obviously a dead server with him and a few other players. he probably has low level alts to join the final fight so they can get in 30 rounds in time. The solution is not to remove the cap, but to think of another alternative. Some ideas come to mind, but I am sure Tynon is also thinking about a solution for the long term that is equitable to all players.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
Maybe set an "maximum individual player cap" of 50 mil per banish regardless of which difficulty banish your realm is doing could potentially help solve the problem. This would ensure you don't have a player getting extraordinary amount while others on a populated servers get lower distribution?
Well we are of on the same wave length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
I think the cap should go - and all servers get merged to create a minimum population of 100 active players per realm - Then theres not much need for a cap- and alot of us would be on 6.25b banishes getting about the same - hopefully slightly more in rewards then we do now in a 1.25b.
Im not into this "CAP" idea of any sort - because at some point it is punitive. Fix the problem that created the need for a cap. WHich is low population servers
Well I am saying something a little different.
Keep the cap in place, but place an "individual maximum per banish cap" of 50 mil in addition so they cannot get any more than 50 mil regardless of what others do in Banish. So if this person does 99% of the damage, that is fine, but he will only get 50mil per banish as the individual cap kicks in.
Well we are on the same page as to SOMETHING NEEDS DONE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
But your idea does nothing for high population servers who get stuck on 6.25b banishes.
Well maybe raise the cap for 6.25 bil banish to 125 - 150 mil along with individual cap in place may be the best compromise IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
You and others have said raise the cap on 6.25bQuote:
Originally Posted by Riot
Why so low of a cap on it. Let me break it down this way
in my realm
30-40 players do banish
top 2 eats up 50% of the damage
#9 and #10 on leader board does 1-2% of the total damage each
with such a low cap on the 6.25b it doesnt help those player. IN fact when #1 and # 2 get 2 subs - its gonna make it worse for them.
Yes I want more coins form banish - but with the cap and even the suggested cap on the 6.25b banish (125m-150m) - it will soon get to the point that smaller players - and by small I mean 70-100m power players are going to have no reason to do banish - because they can get more coins and creds form the shrine.
You see this situation is probably only going to occur on a few servers to be honest. I checked a few other severs out. And man there is noon eon most of these servers. SO I get why alot of you are saying there should be a cap. Because it will never really effect your server. But on server 1 its going to and is already having a very negative impact.
And that screen shot shows that the cap did nothing to stop player sin dead realms to getting tons of coins from banish.
Everything I have ever seen about people saying we need a cap is to stop people form running away with getting too much in banish a day. Well theres a better solution imo - merge servers.
If you want to keep the cap and adjust it for 6.25b then it need sto cap at no less then 400m - WHY so that all those medium and small accts have a reason to do the 6.25b- The pot must be big enough for all.
And before anyone says - lets make the cap based on players in a banish - stop - that will just lead to alts.
I made the suggestion of an unlimited HP banish that runs in the background like RAG. that we could set the coins/creds/rep per damage to something reasonable for all and add in al the city buffs and guild tech buffs to those numbers as well as a level multiplier.
This allows for banish to become equitable across all servers with no cap needed
Yes, individual banish caps have been proposed many times.Quote:
Well I am saying something a little different.
Keep the cap in place, but place an "individual maximum per banish cap" of 50 mil in addition so they cannot get any more than 50 mil regardless of what others do in Banish. So if this person does 99% of the damage, that is fine, but he will only get 50mil per banish as the individual cap kicks in.
Either 1) Implement individual cap in place of realm cap, or 2) raise the realm cap but also add an individual cap.
BTW, that, "anonymous," player is Fluer from Server 91.
She left her old guild, which happens to Flameheart's (who is a huge hitter in Banishes) guild, to go to an empty realm just to rack in more Banish awards.
Seems like a smart idea, I'm considering doing so too on my main server as well now.
Well I wish there was an empty realm on server 1- could we get a new realm on server 1 please - The Matt Realm - I could use 99m coins per banish daily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelsha
The problem is small servers population versus higher server population. Many believe this cap was put in place to try and stop small population servers from doing exactly what I screen shotted. As you can see it did not stop that. And I believe any cap is going to hurt players somewhere some how.
SO make it like I suggested.
Regardless of realms, server population etc - if you do x amount of damage you get the same rewards as others who do the same. ANd yes I know you all think that is how it is setup now. Butt it isnt becuas eho wmuch damage you can do is based on the server population and realm population.
My earlier proposal of making banish run like rag make sit so EVERYONE does the same number of rounds regardless of how long a round can last - allowing players to be AFK. Stop sthe whole getting attacked in banish PvP nonsense. Removes the need to refresh period.
Then it makes it so the devs can figure out that magical # of coins /creds and rep to assign per x amount of damage.
Then that annoying last hit taking 10 rounds is removed and replaced with first strike reward.
I know alot of people are reading this thread as me whining for more coins. And YES that is part of my motivation. But there is ALOT more to this cap then most players realize. And it only hurts players. It helps noone. The supposed reason for implementing it can be achieved with my suggestion and at the same time eliminate many of the issues and concerns many have expressed in this forum about banish.
SO stop worrying about how many more coins blayd or me or anyone can get if the cap is removed - take a serious look at my suggestion of how to completely overhaul banish and give feed back on that
Yes MattP, I believe your suggestion would be awesome because ALL players from Blayd and Exec to the smallest players would prefer such a system to what we have now, capped or uncapped. BUT it just changes one of the must fundamental parts of the game to radically to the point where it changes Banish to pretty much a completely different event, which makes it unlikely for the devs to implement. Perhaps add something like that as a new event?
You have a point. But if I am correct Dawn has stated - Banish is not meant to be this over whelming source of income that if players miss it they will fall behind, and it was never intended for people to be doing this much damage. If that is truly the case - then an overhaul of the banish is not out of the question. And my suggestion takes into acct what MANY have asked for. It makes doing banish alot easier for many - who are at work and cant refresh etc and have basically 2 mins to log it and let it run etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelsha
I think you are right Yelsha - THE MAJORITY of players would love this version of banish. MOST PLAYERS could get more out of banish this way or it could totally level the playing field across servers. There would eb no issue to need a cap. The devs can simply adjust that # of coins/creds/rep per x damage to what works for the balance of all servers right now. and if in 3 months something is off they can change it. ANd if then you can add in city/ra/guild tech bonuses to that number it works out for everyone. And gives the devs a way to control our income form banish without allowing some player son certain servers to ever run away with it
Matt,
Why are you so worried and obsessed about how other players are doing in the game?
Why is it such a big deal for you how much other players get in Banish?
I am too a little. CW reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
I mainly concerned about MYSELF and my guildmates who are all suffering and going to suffer more because of this ridiculous cap that's only purpose is to punish high population servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by g346007_1906957
I have challenged dawn once to please state exactly how the intended this cap to help players. he has yet to do so. SO I personally think they intended the cap to punish high population servers in an attempt to kill them off and have players move on to new servers.
I checked out what happens on a few other servers to get a NON server 1 centric view point of the issue
I am not sure I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
1. The smaller players starting with #8 on down gets some times under 1% as well. This means even if you raise it, it doesn't help them nearly as it would help the top 5 players when you raise the cap and further widen the gap.
2. This would make the game progression too fast which Tynon has clearly stated they will not remove the cap.
3. Do you really have 40 active banish participants all the time? :confused:
Based on what I can see, raising the cap to a significant amount only helps the bigger players and not so much the little guys (who are also mainly alts).
DUDE we are server 1 we really have 40-60 active players per realm not alts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
SO this cap is hurting ALOT of players. NOT ALTS.
Yes the top 5 will get more
so will the rest
The alternative is people stop doing banish because it is pointless. _ then they have so little income they dont progress and leave the game - Look I know uCool miscalculated alot of things from DAY 1 - But instead of hurting alot of players why not make it so theres more to spend on when you reach higher levels? SO all that extra income has to go somewhere.
There has to be a better solution then what we have now on Server 1 in regards to this 6.25b banish non sense.
So essentially, this is the real reason why you want to have the cap removed. So you can get significant coinage like others on empty servers, yet you want to enjoy the active server benefits. Essentially you are saying you want your cake and eat it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
Can't have it both ways, because those empty servers also will not and do not get to lvl 8 guilds anytime soon, like the server you are on with active players getting 150 stamina every day that stacks helping you level faster. So there is a trade off.
Eventually Tynon will merge those "empty" servers soon so there isn't so many of these so called "empty realms" and coinage disparity. This would fix some of these issues.
I think it is safe to say this banish cap discussion has come full circle and it is not going anywhere since Tynon has already stated their position many times on this topic, and no matter how much you go on about it, it is not going to change their position.
They did. It is called Mount feeds which cost 1 mil coinage per feed. For the average player this could drain them of all their life savings on a daily basis. It also slows down the progression of medium players who usually get around 10 - 15 mil coin per day (which 5mil - 7 mil now go to feeding a mount). I am sure they will come up with more coin draining things.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
Sarcasm is lost in translation some days.
I am very happy getting my 20-30m coins per banish as it is now. And when I get my second sub it will be more. But what happens when 2 or 3 players in the realm have 2 subs. They will be forced to do the 6.25b banish and then everyone in the realm is forced to do a 50-60 min banish and get the same or less rewards. This is more complicated then just how many more coins I could get without the cap. Apparently the intricacies of the situation are lost on the majority of players who will never be effected. Blayd, without major merges- you will never feel the full effect of this cap, so you commenting on the subject isnt super helpful. You do not understand the makeup of high population servers or having someone to compete with. YOU ARE A SPECIAL CASE. SO are a few others.
The lack of comments from Dawn illustrates that the devs dont get it or I am 100% correct in the REAL reason for the cap.
And that 150 stamina is next to useless for some. What are we going to use it on? Most on server 1 have all their plans done or cant get any more useful plans yet without powering up. For that city buff to be useful you need to get it much earlier in game play. Sure its helping some players - but its not as big of a deal as you try to make it to be.
ANd as far as my cake and eating it too - to me that is the same as saying we need a cap and we need to raise it for 6.25b banish
I'm sorry matt.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattp169
The world doesn't revolve around Server 1, nor should it ever be.
The majority of servers in Tynon would kill to have 150 stamina free each day, and 1 free lab each day.
You have shown again and again how selfish you think of yourself.
I agree with Blayd, this discussion has gone full circle and is going nowhere. A waste of forum bandwidth and space.
They probably feel that this is a sufficient reason for the cap, which I am inclined to agree that it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnseeker
Should they do something about the 6.25 billion banish, yes. What should they do about it, I don't know and don't particularly care.
OK, I am beginning to like Matt's idea of no hit-point, no refresh banishes more and more.
Banish works like this: Once you click into Banish and boost, you get 50 rounds regardless of how long each round lasts, Rag-style.
You rewards would scale based on damage, using a scale such as:
1-100M damage: 1 coin/0.4 credits/1 rep every 10k dmg
100M-250M damage: 1 coin/.../... every 12.5k dmg
250M-500M damage: 1 coin... every 15k damage
500M-1B damage: 1 coin... every 20k damage
1B-2B damage: 1 coin... every 25k damage
2B+ damage: 1 coin... every 50k damage
The brilliant thing is this solves BOTH problems with the current system:
1) Makes things fair and balances things across all servers, making people with same level of dps earn the same.
2) Solves the problem with exponentially increasing incomes. The previous system suffered from exponentially increasing income due to players exponentially increasing their income past a certain point (LB sets). Now, by scaling damage so the marginal income decreases as the marginal damage increases, the growth in income evens out and is linear even as damage increases exponentially.