Ulterior Motive: Response to Banish Cap threads

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

I don't understand why people (because you're not the only one) need to insult other players when making a point. I know you may be joking, but that's a big "maybe". And from what I read, most people don't seem to be joking most of the time. Saying that others' ideas are stupid or whatever isn't a way to argue. It's a sophist's way to win an argument.

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Exactly why I haven't logged into these forums in almost a month up till this morning. You can't have an adult discussion or be passionate about an issue here without 2 or 3 haters telling you to "deal with it" or "Your just mad your not getting your way" or simply side with the guy who makes the largest joke, or has the most power. I have been dragged into it before and it's not helping anything or anyone in game. I normally don't joke when I post. I post serious dicussions about what bothers me about this game, and try to get my point across so that other people understand what I mean and MAYBE the devs will take notice and see that the vast majority of users here DO AGREE. It's only a small population of folks here that need to rock the boat constantly, for whatever reason they may have.

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Originally Posted by Deucalion

Exactly why I haven't logged into these forums in almost a month up till this morning. You can't have an adult discussion or be passionate about an issue here without 2 or 3 haters telling you to "deal with it" or "Your just mad your not getting your way" or simply side with the guy who makes the largest joke, or has the most power. I have been dragged into it before and it's not helping anything or anyone in game. I normally don't joke when I post. I post serious dicussions about what bothers me about this game, and try to get my point across so that other people understand what I mean and MAYBE the devs will take notice and see that the vast majority of users here DO AGREE. It's only a small population of folks here that need to rock the boat constantly, for whatever reason they may have.

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I can't agree more. Discussion of topics does not require insults, smartass remarks and rudeness. I guess some don't get enough chances to vent in RL so they do it in games under the guise of anonymity. Does not make the point, win arguments or add to any serious discussions. The good input then gets overlooked, and buried between the posts.

How many people post suggestions here without an ulterior motive? Pretty much everything I suggested would be something that I want to see, and most of those would also be good for me... I imagine it's the same for everyone else, but I might be wrong.

(ironically [using this word wrong] {using these brackets wrong}, the banish cap is good for me, but I think it should be readjusted)

I would also state that there is a lot of other things that can be changed before this cap situation.

what about Ragnok for example. Can we get this addressed so it also becomes a relevant part of this game again?

I agree with Herby on this.

Let me ask this question. Why should the payout for banish exponentially exceed that of any other event?

How about we buff the rewards for Ragnarok first. No seriously. Has anyone taken a look at a typical reward haul for rag lately.

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Originally Posted by perawind_8762856

I agree with Herby on this.

Let me ask this question. Why should the payout for banish exponentially exceed that of any other event?

How about we buff the rewards for Ragnarok first. No seriously. Has anyone taken a look at a typical reward haul for rag lately.

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I suggested in the past that rag rewards improve with one's title. The higher your title, the more rep you gain per win.

For now, I think Banish needs to exponentially exceed other events. It's the only way one can progress in this game without having to buy thousand of gems to get coins. Unless there are other means to get coins, banish should pay off.

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Originally Posted by Herby

10m boss: nothing changes - - - (1m gold, 400k credits maximum)
50m boss: nothing changes - - - (5m gold, 2m credits maximum)
250m boss: nothing changes - - - (25m gold, 10m credits maximum)
1.25b boss: rewards increase by 25% - - - (125m gold, 50m credits maximum)
6.25b boss: rewards increase by 625% - - - (625m gold, 250m credits maximum)

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It seems to me that it's a 400% increase everywhere. No 25%, no 625%.

25M x 400% = 100M
100M + 25M = 125M


If there was a 25% increase in the rewards from the 250M boss to the 1.25B boss, the 1.25B boss would give 30M coins:

25M x 25%= 5M
25M + 5M = 30M


This is what a 625% increase would give: 906.25M coins

125M x 625% = 781.25M
125M + 781.25 = 906.25M

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

It seems to me that it's a 400% increase everywhere. No 25%, no 625%.

25M x 400% = 100M
100M x 25M = 125M


If there was a 25% increase in the rewards from the 250M boss to the 1.25B boss, the 1.25B boss would give 30M coins:

25M x 25%= 5M
25M + 5M = 30M

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He's not talking about the increase going to the next level. He's talking about the increase if you lift the cap.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

He's not talking about the increase going to the next level. He's talking about the increase if you lift the cap.

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That's what I'm talking about too...

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

I suggested in the past that rag rewards improve with one's title. The higher your title, the more rep you gain per win.

For now, I think Banish needs to exponentially exceed other events. It's the only way one can progress in this game without having to buy thousand of gems to get coins. Unless there are other means to get coins, banish should pay off.

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Then one of the nighttime events should also pay off for those who work during the day and can not attend banish.

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Originally Posted by perawind_8762856

Then one of the nighttime events should also pay off for those who work during the day and can not attend banish.

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They did improve the rewards for GW, but I don't think giving flat out the same rewards to everyone should be the solution. People suggested in the past more banish events during the day, and people get to attend a maximum of 2 banish events out of the ones available during the day. Banish is cool because it's one of the few events that you have to fight to gain something. GW just hands me 10M coins everyday, like any player my level.

If you want rag improved start your own thread. I agree rag rewards are pathetic. So are HP.

Back on subject.

Banish Cap HELPS NO ONE. It hurts all. It should go

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

That's what I'm talking about too...

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For 1.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 125m coins. That's a 25m increase from the 100m (which is a 25% increase).

For 6.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 625m coins. That's a 525m increase from the 100m (which is a 525% increase).


Have no clue where you are getting the 400% increase. 400% increase means x5, so I assumed you meant going to the next level.

I don't see problem with having the cap removed. My guild on server 106 is getting closer to the 6.25B banish boss. We should have it in a month or two. I don't see why our income should stop growing when we reach that.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

For 1.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 125m coins. That's a 25m increase from the 100m (which is a 25% increase).

For 6.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 625m coins. That's a 525m increase from the 100m (which is a 525% increase).


Have no clue where you are getting the 400% increase. 400% increase means x5, so I assumed you meant going to the next level.

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Oh I get it. I thought he was talking about when having no cap at all anywhere, what the increase is in coins when you get from one level to the next.

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Originally Posted by ChickenWing

I don't see problem with having the cap removed. My guild on server 106 is getting closer to the 6.25B banish boss. We should have it in a month or two. I don't see why our income should stop growing when we reach that.



Oh I get it. I thought he was talking about when having no cap at all anywhere, what the increase is in coins when you get from one level to the next.

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Here is why.
becuase if you server which is a hair newer then blayd's can get to 6.25b banish and have no cap. You will gain an UNFAIR advantage over blayd who can not get to the the 6.25b.

NOw if you think that makes sense, thats the problem. Thats what this is really all about. That and trying to force people to new servers to start over and spend more money. It has nothing to do with BALANCE. Its a scheme to get players to move on to a new server

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Originally Posted by mattp169

OK maybe this is a better solution

remove cap
and change it so beating the banish in 5 mins is required to open the next one.
and set it so you have to complete a banish is 45 minutes to keep it
and add in more banish levels. so we have
10m
50m
100m
200m
500m
750m
1.25b
2.5b
4b
6b
etc

Then reset all servers to 10m banish.

This will slow down coin growth - while allowing large population servers to keep growing

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Matt is right something needs to be done... if the purpose of the cap was to help smaller players it is doing the opposite...in a 6.25 bil banish those out of the top 10 get VERY little of anything.. an hour spent for crap rewards makes no sense at all. and new things have been added that require coins...rune levels increased...mounts to feed etc.

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Originally Posted by g346007_1906957

For 1.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 125m coins. That's a 25m increase from the 100m (which is a 25% increase).

For 6.25b, we get 100m coins. If we lift the cap, we get 625m coins. That's a 525m increase from the 100m (which is a 525% increase).

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Unfortunately this is why we have a cap. 625m coins is a hefty amount and even the first 10 servers only have 3-4 players per realm who are the biggest hitters. So I can only imagine their daily share if they are able to do both Banishes.

I always have said an adjustment in the cap is the fairest to go, yes most people consider Banish as the 'most important' event. To those people it is but it's just an event on the daily calender. I agree that Ragnarok needs some updating with better rep and credits on offer.


Couple of forum mod things to bring up. Don't keep double posting please try to use the edit button, it's there for when you wish to add something to your post. Secondly, there seems to be a lot posting comments regarding bad manners. Got to say some of those who posted comments on alleged rudeness have been guilty of it themselves in the past.

You have two options, ignore it or if you really feel it's offensive and not within forum etiquette use the report button. No need for lengthy debates on it.

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Well congratulations, you just confirmed that you want people to move to new servers, because without more coins and credits for people to earn, progress on servers will slowly grind to a halt and/or your biggest spenders on servers will slowly stop spending and quit.

And this is teh 2nd time you used the words "AT THIS TIME"

Which says to me the plan is to lift it at some point

So let me take guesses as to when that will be.

1. when servers have died off and no server can hit the 6,25b
2. When blayd wants it lifted since he is your biggest spender and you seem to listen to him more then others
3. when more people complain about this stupid cap that does not serve the purposes you state it does.
4. when you totally nerf banish or make it so incredibly hard noone could ever get the 6.25b banish
5. The game is so fundamentally changed the game the cap is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Is there any plan of making the other events more relevant? GW is relevant in itself, but what about rag? Would you consider make more events that rewards coins if banish is to be capped?

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

Secondly, there seems to be a lot posting comments regarding bad manners. Got to say some of those who posted comments on alleged rudeness have been guilty of it themselves in the past.

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Yes, very true. But it's good to be reminded of it when you are bad mannered. I think we all act like that at times. I, for one, would like to be called to order when I do.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Well congratulations, you just confirmed that you want people to move to new servers, because without more coins and credits for people to earn, progress on servers will slowly grind to a halt and/or your biggest spenders on servers will slowly stop spending and quit.

And this is teh 2nd time you used the words "AT THIS TIME"

Which says to me the plan is to lift it at some point

So let me take guesses as to when that will be.

1. when servers have died off and no server can hit the 6,25b
2. When blayd wants it lifted since he is your biggest spender and you seem to listen to him more then others
3. when more people complain about this stupid cap that does not serve the purposes you state it does.
4. when you totally nerf banish or make it so incredibly hard noone could ever get the 6.25b banish
5. The game is so fundamentally changed the game the cap is irrelevant.

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Matt it could also mean that there are no plans to change it but they are leaving the possibility open in case they change their minds for whatever reason.

Anyways, Dawn's right, removing the cap would make banish (once more and more servers hit the 6.25 billion banish) the single most important event of the day. The only reason to do anything other banish would be for assistant.

What I want to see are ragnorak and Heaven's Palace rewards adjusted instead because we all know that are a bit outdated.

I still see banish as the most popular event, then GW, to attend. Rag is really a waste of credits to boost now, and Noble Lady has been pretty much overlooked now for some time. Enough don't play her that it really makes it kinda fun again, if it's not being overplayed by CW, which is at the same hour on my server. You can actually get more than 100k credits on her again, if you try.

I think the Devs should listen to most of these concerns, it's not that all the events are useless..... just that the rewards are not keeping up with needs as all the accts grow and grow. What the hell good is 20k for assistant now on accts that are 100/200/300 million in power? That is not 1/5 of ONE freaking spin of the tavern. Devs seem to expect us to grow on starvation diets.

ok lets do real math

I can get 27m coins in a capped 1.25b banish - uncapped that is 33.75m coins
so now multiply by 5 for a 6.25b
that rounds to 169m coins a banish
Wow that seems like a lot?

ok so that will allow me in 50 banishes or so to get all runes for 7 heroes up to level 11
then in 100 more banishes i can have all level 12 runes

so 75 days of not missing a banish to finish my runes.
AND THATS IF I DONT SPEND COINS ON ANYTHING ELSE like BLACKSMITH

now lets say I like my level 9 and 10 runes alot and would hate to see them become level 12s

it would take about 1k banishes at those numbers to finish maxing out all my equipment for all 7 heroes

Now we aren't taking into acct that I will power up and get more damage as time goes on, and we arent taking into account other players will power up and eat in to my damage as well.

SO even if we pulled the cap it will take me close to 2 years to finish maxing everything out with coins - the same is true for most players my size. and for all those smaller then me they would need about 20 years to max out their equipment and runes even with no cap.

SO I see no need for this cap FOR ANYONE

Folks I dont disagree that other events need rewards updated as well.
there should be a LEVEL MULTIPLIER FOR ALL REWARDS-which there is for somethings - but its way to small of a multiplier. if you remove the cap on banish no need for a multiplier there.

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Originally Posted by mattp169

Here is why.
becuase if you server which is a hair newer then blayd's can get to 6.25b banish and have no cap. You will gain an UNFAIR advantage over blayd who can not get to the the 6.25b.

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Why is this guy keep bringing me into this?

Listen to me very carefully, because I will say it one more time only. Banish Cap is needed to slow down the progression of this "game". The game is near its end in current format. Everyone will have lvl 12 runes and ~ 25 bil coins in no time to get all the black smith to 110 is the cap did not exist. In some cases in less than a month.

Thank you and let's close this and all future banish cap threads.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Thank you for the clarification.

Now lets play the game and stop worrying about something that will not change any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Why is this guy keep bringing me into this?

Listen to me very carefully, because I will say it one more time only. Banish Cap is needed to slow down the progression of this "game". The game is near its end in current format. Everyone will have lvl 12 runes and ~ 25 bil coins in no time to get all the black smith to 110 is the cap did not exist. In some cases in less than a month.

Thank you and let's close this and all future banish cap threads.

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I said in another thread - I need to stop using your name -it sounds like im picking on you and that not my intention. you are just the most visible example since you have progressed the furthest in the game.

And you are so far from correct on how close people are to maxing things out. I would nee to gain like 100m coins or more a day for 2 years to max out everything for all 8 heroes. You may be close to max but very very few are. I mean there are plenty of players who barely have a few level 10 runes who play daily. Players who in a 1.25b banish get 1-2 m coins and they are in the top 10 of their banish leaderboard on SERVER 1.

ANd Id love to know where you got all the coins to get so close to max level.

80 level 12 runes cost 44b coins
it costs about 1.6b coins to level a spirit from 1-115 so times 8 thats another 12.8 b coins
and then theres another 56 pieces of gear on top of that which costs less then a spirit but still close to a billion coins to upgrade all the way to level 115 so there's another 56b gold you need for that.
SO lets round that off to 110b coins to upgrade all gear and runes. that means an avg daily income of 600m coins a day to do it in about 6 months. even if you go the 11 months Server 1 has been live - that is about 330m coins a day avg income to do that - So i Highly doubt many are even close to maxing it all out. Sure A few mega super coiners could be. But thats the .0001%.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

We have no intention of removing the banish cap at this time. We want players to participate in a variety of activities and do not want any single activity to have overriding importance, such that players can't afford to miss it.

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Matt, just drop it.

The uCool Community Manager has spoken in both threads.
They aren't removing the cap.

You have to find another way to get more gold and credits lol.
You know, you can actually coin up and buy them.

I propose to have this thread and all other similar banish cap threads be closed please?

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Originally Posted by Herby

Matt, just drop it.

The uCool Community Manager has spoken in both threads.
They aren't removing the cap.

You have to find another way to get more gold and credits lol.
You know, you can actually coin up and buy them.

I propose to have this thread and all other similar banish cap threads be closed please?

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You kn ow I would be happy to drop it if uCool would give us a reasonable and complete explanation of how this cap benefits the game, the players, etc. because I can not see one positive thing from this cap.
In all these threads, the most I have heard is - we dont want people to rely on banish to be an must do event to compete. Which sorry - its too late thats the way they designed the game since beta. If it wasnt designed that way - we would have all played differently and progress for everyone would be totally different. SO that explanation makes 0 sense. Also see things about balance and not letting 1 player in a realm or server run away and get 200m or more coins a banish form a 6.25b - which makes no sense since at the levels we are playing at to do that much damage in a 6.25b banish you need that much coin to keep upgrading things.

So all i see this cap doing is killing high population servers in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Herby

I propose to have this thread and all other similar banish cap threads be closed please?[/COLOR]

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Since you are the OP in this one I'll happily close this one-just drop me a PM if you want it reopened.