I am now the lucky owner of a full mooned (no pun intended) Lancelot.
My damage in cerb hasn't changed though and I am wondering if the damage we can do is capped somehow?
Does anyone have some insight in that?
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I am now the lucky owner of a full mooned (no pun intended) Lancelot.
My damage in cerb hasn't changed though and I am wondering if the damage we can do is capped somehow?
Does anyone have some insight in that?
First off congratulations Wild.
There really isn't any way your question can be easily answered. The damage I do varies from 2-3% to 0.4% in 1.25b. Other factors such as critical hits, bypass cool-downs, 80% or 100% and the amount of participants impact the amount everyone gets.
Many, many players have scratched their heads over this conundrum but no clear answer has been given.
The damage isn't cap'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildflower
To find out what really happens to your Lance, you have to watch an entire round until it ends.
For most cases, you have to balance having a lot of stunners while dishing out maximum damage.
A full-starred Lance won't do much total damage if you can't keep the boss stunned for the entire 30 rounds.
What's your banish formation?
@Morgan, ty, I felt rather pleased myself :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
@Herby;
I have watched and part of the problem is running out of rounds.
I am now trying to add more damage and reduce the stun part of it to see if that makes a difference.
Normal form includes:
aphro, shayd, cianna, thucy, lance and prophet. I have replaced thucy with pompey for this afternoon.
However, I have close contact with another player on my server.
His banish heroes are a lot weaker then mine, but we have similar equip lvls.
Today we had a similar amount of people for banish, we used the same formation (including pompey, this morning we used Calvin).
I did 57%
Second was 19%
third 5%
His realm:
He did 57%
second 19%
third 10%
We reached final round at a similar time ( he had 1 extra round).
You would say that his no moon lance and minor moon heroes would amount to less damage.
This would only make sense if all of us are running out of rounds I think?
Along with my conspiracy theory that Tynon's RNG is awful...most of it probably depends on the crits on lance. For a while, I've been noticing my lance almost always critting, and then for a few days he only crits occasionally. (basically I doubt the rolls are independent of each other... you will get mainly lucky or unlucky streaks and rarely anything in the middle)
Edit: Random and off topic but...
I just tried a 0 stunner form (pvp form), since I was lazy today. I am still lasting past the full minute sometimes and I don't even have the 7th slot. Could we get that results button yet? It has nothing to do with the Devs somehow missing that stunners could be used effectively in banish...
Yes, as Morgan also reflected, it is rather luck dependent for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by g346007_1906957
I will keep that in mind the next couple of days with testing.
Still, I do feel full mooned vs no moons should be reflected in the score somehow.
This will need more testing though to see if this afternoon he got very lucky and I got unlucky :).
@wildflower
I think there is a limit of how many stuns in a row you can land on the boss and after a certain count it will not get stunned for a full round. I can't tell for sure but i have noticed some things that are going on, compared not only total damage per round but also compared it to the max number of rounds. of course there is nothing i can say 100% because at the end there is a huge portion of luck on different levels (doing max individual damage, landing stuns and landing crits). however, i have noticed that if you prefer to have multiple stunners then make sure they are not hitting in sequence, best seems to spread them over subs. i am currently with 2 stunners and am doing significantly more damage than with 3 or 4. all i say you have to find a balance between trying to sun and doing damage. for example if a stunner like shayd is doing decent damage but is missing every 3rd round you have to take that into consideration over another stunner who is doing slightly less damage but never misses.
i have right now 2 setups with 2 stunners (aphro/cianna and aphro/shayd) each that i am testing and they seem to be the strongest and most reliable. i've had other forms using 3 and 4 stunners that did only half the damage.
also to make your lance do more damage give him lv 12 crit rune and aim for crit sancts (i know its luck, but removing certain sancts early and planning ahead helps) and the same for your other heroes. even your cianna can crit and your main (usually your first sacrifice is actually a decent DD) as well. grz on your "mooning", but its not as significant as you think because the critical damage is much more significant than a small raise in power.
good luck
ps: not for you, but to the other readers: often players experience a damage reduction after increasing shayds preciseness to 11 and 12. in my experience that is based on the fact that becasue she doesnt miss as much anymore it results into a higher frequency of stuns that lead to the main (usually at that stage without light spirit) running up the bosses morale and resulting into an early party wipe-out
That makes sense. One mystery solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisim_2492829
@Kaisim
Thanks for your reply.
He is wearing max runes and max sword/spirit, also all talents are maxed.
I am pretty sure it has to do with running out of rounds, though my comparison to the other guy left me quite shocked.
My best stunner is Aphro, Cianna and Shayd are nice seconds where I find that sometimes Shayd will stun more, though her damage is dismal compared to Cianna.
I will run a few days with Pompey in sub instead of Thucy and see if what the outcome will be.
Wildflower, do you get better output using Calvin or without Calvin? What heroes do you use in addition to Calvin when you have him in?
@Yelsha When I used Calvin I ran out of rounds every round. I opted not to use him for now, though he might get back in instead of a stunner at some point.
My output was similar as without him. I used Cianna, Aphro, Shayd, Calvin, Lance, Prophet and main.
Today I had two other top fighters in Banish and where before one of them could come close to beating me, there was more distance today.
In that regard Lance seems to help a lot.
Also consistency has gone up greatly.
Still feel as if the damage difference is not enough, but will keep tracking.
i dont think anyone in the higher levels (past 4x light spirits) utilizes calvin during banishes... or am i totally off on this one :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelsha
Wildflower: What's the highest damage banish round you have ever gotten?
To get your theoretical max damage, add up all the damage you do in one fight round and multiply that by 30.
If you're getting a lot less damage than the theoretical max, you're not stunning the boss enough (you die before round 30).
Even though, you will not always stun the full fight. There will be times when your stuns do not land at all past 2nd or 3rd round.
However, having more stunners does bring consistency.
@riot Yes, we taught you well ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
I have been doing great damage, that is not really what I am asking or pointing at.
My expectation was that by getting Lance from 4 moons to full moon, my damage would go up more than it did.
It seems odd that people who have no moons on there banish heroes can do same-ish damage as I do when circumstances are the same.
On server 8 we all use pretty much the same formation ( though we do mix it up here and there).
There has to be a hidden factor taken in account for these results to be possible.
It might be luck of course.
If higher powered heroes are no longer showing effect at some point, then damage must rely on something else in my view.
However it has only been 2 days, so it is hardly conclusive that the full mooned power hero is not conductive.
Stats:
Lance
skill 111
crit 231
Cianna
Skill 87
crit 215
Aphro
Mag att 91
I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildflower
Every star and saint I add to Lance has increased my damage.
Also I knew about the 3 or 4 stun config for a long time before I decided to use it. I was just too lazy to pull out thuc and cienna from the hero tavryn and swap runes, etc.
Once 8th sub slot opens, I am probably going to reintroduce Blood or Pompey in addition to the 4 stunners. If the rounds are capped at 35, I am capping pretty often right now.
@Riot I remember your knowledge on the subject well, no worries:Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
http://bbs.tynon.com/showthread.php?...ish+formations
I am glad it has increased your damage.
Mine has not increased much the past 2 days - which can still be luck dependent - and I am looking as to why that is.
We can not compare our stories due to the difference in servers, participation in the events as well as power level difference.
I have to emphasize this a little more i think:
if you have a hero doing 1.5m damage on every turn but can not use him because you have a hero who stuns and does 200k damage instead and think its great then you are not doing the math and need to find a balance between stuns and damage.
@Kaisim I don't understand you, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisim_2492829
Who am I not using?
Btw your inbox is full :).
So yes, what I am reading is that my balance between stunning and damage might be off.
I will run the next two with not only Pompey, but also Blood in there.
Wildflower:
What Banish formation do you use?
And how much damage do you do per round? for 20mins?
My damage has become more consistent now as I said previously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
with stunners or pompey and stunner(difference is not seen yet), it is around:
3,4 % aka 45 mil average with highest round 55 mil and unlucky rounds of 35.
I usually end up with between 34 - 45% (so between 450 and 550) unless no one is there to play :), then it can jump to 55%.
(Though today I had a 33% result *pulls hair out*)
EDIT: We can have the following other player result:
34% number 1
30% number 2
20% number 3
7% number 4
rest (between 10-18 players).
I liked using the following the most:
Prophet cianna x
x main x
x lance Aphro
Sub: Shayd
Sub2: Thucy
It is also what most are using on the server.
I sometimes opt for :
Prophet x x
x main x
Lance Cianna/Aphro Cianna/Aphro
With the same subs.
I am now experimenting less stunners in sub, though when I first tried that months ago I didn't like it and thusfar adding Pompey for Thucy hasn't added much damage.
you cant look at your total percentage without taking not only a "bad day" for yourself but also bad and good days for the others. i suggest to take the loss for a few days and not refresh between rounds, write down either your coins or your rep that you are getting, take the average on 22 entries, ignore the max/lowest round and take the average.
I wonder why?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisim_2492829
To look at the rep total at the end.. but that is not necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby
Just refresh for each round, but write down the % dmg or damage dealt after each round, then tally it up and take the average.
Without refreshing, it'll take her about 5 Banishes, all wasted, to get 22 data points.
@ kai
Yep, that is the plan, just to take some loss and see what will work better in the end :).
No need to not refresh to find the average, but yes I do watch rounds now to see what is working and what not.
Of course the other players have better days and worse days too, I was just giving it as additional info knowing you guys are smart enough to figure out lower and higher possibilities.
yes, that is my plan to take the averages the coming days to see what works best. This still doesn't answer my questions though since on server 8 we all use the same heroes atm.
Also, I can't reply to your message since your inbox is full and I would like to :)
As said my average was 45 mil per round.
Will keep watching to see if it goes up or not.
However with the additional info I have from my server, it seems that at some point the luck factor becomes so big, possible damage does not influence things much until perhaps you find a tipping point there that would make luck for crits and stuns less needed.
After discussing it with others i have on the menu for tomorrow:
prophet shayd x
x main x
x lance aphro
Sub 1 Pompey
Sub 2 Blood
so sorry, i've been deleting almost daily and thats something they really need to fix...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildflower
you have smart friends, thats my other form, except with another stunner (cianna) on the 2nd sub =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildflower
So, review from this morning was that I need my stunners back haha.
The first round looked promising, so the potential is interesting for sure.
However my average went down from 3.4 ish% to a 2.8%.
The main problem is that Lance dies too quickly this way and the limit of 30 rounds isn't reach, while my damage does not make up for that fact.
For that reason I switched back to stunner form in the afternoon, which was relaxing :).
I ended up 5% above the rest of the server wide field, however not much different still from before.
More to follow though :).
nice i am glad for you it works out now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildflower
fun fact: i tried yours that you msg me and did less damage as well lol
I think when the 8th sub opens up, with the cap on rounds, Pompey in one of the sub slots may be useful keeping with the stunner config.
Or maybe Themistocles, depending on how long Pompey/Themistocles stays alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
The longer the fight, the more damage Themistocles will do over Pompey.
I'm in the same guild as Wildflower and generally come second in Baal/Cerberus with the occasional win. Wildflower is much more powerful than me, but in Banish events I can get very close despite my heroes being weaker. The only area where I am stronger is I am one level higher, but I don't have the second sub slot and I shouldn't be getting close to beating Wildflower.
My Line up is:
Lancelot Cianna Aphrodite
X X Main
Herja X X Sub is Themistocles.
If I change form on every hit, I score higher than if I keep it static so I change Main's position in middle row each time. If I do this, my average percentage per hit increases by 0.6%. This has been tested over the past 6 weeks and remains fairly consistant. So, with 80% boost, my average is 3.28% per hit (based over last 5 days).
The scores also change depending on who is fighting. If our 3rd best at Baal/Cerb is playing, Wildflowers average drops, but mine increases. This might be a game anomaly, but again it is consistant and I have been monitoring it for a few weeks. If our 4th Best is fighting and 3rd best is absent, then Wildflowers average increases and mine drops.
From this, my conclusion is that Baal/Cerb is affected by number of players hitting and the strengths of those players.
I am a statistician by trade and nothing in Tynon follows the normal statistical patterns. Its impossible to guess how well you are going to do with each hit, but it is possible to test various methods and take the most productive route.
I would like to believe that there is a trend in Banish damage, but based on my personal experience, there is none.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrtolley_7332441
I do the same damage (or fall withing the same damage range) whether I am alone or I am doing banish with 30 other players.
I believe its your Themistocles that is affecting your ability to keep up with Wild's damage.
It could also be that your Aphrodite is better than Wild's (more hit rate?).
In your setup, Aphrodite's ability to stun is the main deciding factor in your damage output.
Comparing your formation and Wild's, yours has a different dying order. I think Wild just needs to improve his formation.
Boosting Lance to full is, in my opinion, a good idea in maxing your banish damage. HOWEVER you still need to max the stuns too, and even then you are still handicapped by the capped number of rounds, which is 30. I dont know how much damage is possible in one round, but theres definitely an upper limit. Highest I m seeing currently is around 70m or so....