The most interesting CW yet

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Originally Posted by Riot

Who was that, your two alts?

ROFL

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A vip9 alt?
That will make my day ;) Especially to the one person who is so determined to get rid of alts in this game

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Originally Posted by Riot

I have to respectfully disagree.

So what you are saying is Yue dropped and intentionally lost CWF to help others so it is ok, and Fluer and I did not intent to help anyone so it is an exploit?

This makes no sense and it is contradictory statement.

Here is the fact for the simple minded folks.

A person has the right to play the game as they see fit within the mechanics of the game (PERIOD). If the game allows them to change up the formation so they lose or win, then it is allowed and it is not an exploit. If a person uses a Maria that was bugged and not intended to be in the game but uses it in CWF, that is an exploit. Notice the two difference?

If a person wishes to throw a fight because they have crap chip, it is their choice. On the flip side, if a person chooses to lose rounds because he wants to in your words "help other people" earn more chips without having to guess who will win the next 5 rounds, then that is also a choice.

At the end the results were the same for the two champions in the finals.

I am sure there are those out there who won tickets because it was obvious to them are thankful, they do not have to "guess" or take chances on who will win. Which may have yielded less tickets at the end.

Notice there are around 17x betting the other direction during the fight? Those are probably who own multiple alts who are betting on both ends "just incase".

This game is full of possibilities and loop holes. To ask the DEV to punish someone for playing the game within the mechanics allows is ridiculous and will be laughed at. If the DEV team wants to fix that, then they can do a lot of things to not allow for these changes. But it is obviously clear, they do not have any intention of limiting how a person plays the game.



Another "bad idea" The only sin is allowing this topic to even be discussed in such a manner and by a moderator at that.

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i am surprised that you are still defending yourself against the obvious

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Originally Posted by Riot

Who was that, your two alts?

ROFL

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so you saying this to misdirect from your alts? ok fine have it your way:
i am vip6, dont use alts, didnt spent a small fortune into the game and am not worried about bozos like you exploiting the game and tell everyone else to f off. you are the one who is complaining the game doesnt go far and is crying about reaching the ceiling in the game too early and yet you use first 2 chips as an excuse to exploit the game. after that didnt work you then used the crowns as an excuse to exploit but those are intended to penalize players like you.

do you really think all the other players here are stupid and you can fool anyone with your masquerade?

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Originally Posted by kaisim_2492829

i am surprised that you are still defending yourself against the obvious


so you saying this to misdirect from your alts? ok fine have it your way:
i am vip6, dont use alts, didnt spent a small fortune into the game and am not worried about bozos like you exploiting the game and tell everyone else to f off. you are the one who is complaining the game doesnt go far and is crying about reaching the ceiling in the game too early and yet you use first 2 chips as an excuse to exploit the game. after that didnt work you then used the crowns as an excuse to exploit but those are intended to penalize players like you.

do you really think all the other players here are stupid and you can fool anyone with your masquerade?

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No one is "defending". Just stating the obvious and the facts.

The only "masquerade" is your self righteousness. I'd like to see what you would do if you were in a position similar to me and Fleur and see what you do.

It is always easy to talk and say it is not fair until you are in the situation.

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Originally Posted by Riot

I have to respectfully disagree.

So what you are saying is Yue dropped and intentionally lost CWF to help others so it is ok, and Fluer and I did not intent to help anyone so it is an exploit?

This makes no sense and it is contradictory statement.

Here is the fact for the simple minded folks.

A person has the right to play the game as they see fit within the mechanics of the game (PERIOD). If the game allows them to change up the formation so they lose or win, then it is allowed and it is not an exploit. If a person uses a Maria that was bugged and not intended to be in the game but uses it in CWF, that is an exploit. Notice the two difference?

If a person wishes to throw a fight because they have crap chip, it is their choice. On the flip side, if a person chooses to lose rounds because he wants to in your words "help other people" earn more chips without having to guess who will win the next 5 rounds, then that is also a choice.

At the end the results were the same for the two champions in the finals.

I am sure there are those out there who won tickets because it was obvious to them are thankful, they do not have to "guess" or take chances on who will win. Which may have yielded less tickets at the end.

Notice there are around 17x betting the other direction during the fight? Those are probably who own multiple alts who are betting on both ends "just incase".

This game is full of possibilities and loop holes. To ask the DEV to punish someone for playing the game within the mechanics allows is ridiculous and will be laughed at. If the DEV team wants to fix that, then they can do a lot of things to not allow for these changes. But it is obviously clear, they do not have any intention of limiting how a person plays the game.



Another "bad idea" The only sin is allowing this topic to even be discussed in such a manner and by a moderator at that.

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That is well said

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Originally Posted by Riot

I have to respectfully disagree.

So what you are saying is Yue dropped and intentionally lost CWF to help others so it is ok, and Fluer and I did not intent to help anyone so it is an exploit?

This makes no sense and it is contradictory statement.

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I never said it wasn't. However, what I was pointing out was the ethics.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Here is the fact for the simple minded folks.

A person has the right to play the game as they see fit within the mechanics of the game (PERIOD). If the game allows them to change up the formation so they lose or win, then it is allowed and it is not an exploit. If a person uses a Maria that was bugged and not intended to be in the game but uses it in CWF, that is an exploit. Notice the two difference?

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Intentionally manipulating the mechanics to suit oneself is in the game world is an exploit. I'm not going to dress this up nicely for y'all benefits. The difference here is if uCool decides it goes against their ToS. An exploit can be either 'legal' or 'illegal' depending on the game company's view.

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Originally Posted by Riot

If a person wishes to throw a fight because they have crap chip, it is their choice. On the flip side, if a person chooses to lose rounds because he wants to in your words "help other people" earn more chips without having to guess who will win the next 5 rounds, then that is also a choice.

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The whole point of CWF is to find the best and strongest, not have it manipulated to suit one or two players ends. This is what folk are most are annoyed at.

Regarding the chips, you know what? Big deal! Most of the player base would chew their right arm off to have a level 7+ chip so regularly. Instead of being so snotty about what colour chip you are awarded, be proud of achieving what most aspire to.

And FYI, you can't 'play how you choose', there are rules. Lets not dismiss the ToS and that applies to everyone no matter how much you spend.

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Originally Posted by Riot

At the end the results were the same for the two champions in the finals.

I am sure there are those out there who won tickets because it was obvious to them are thankful, they do not have to "guess" or take chances on who will win. Which may have yielded less tickets at the end.

Notice there are around 17x betting the other direction during the fight? Those are probably who own multiple alts who are betting on both ends "just incase".

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Haven't you read the comments? It's not about the tickets or betting it's about putting the whole of CWF into disrepute.

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Originally Posted by Riot

This game is full of possibilities and loop holes. To ask the DEV to punish someone for playing the game within the mechanics allows is ridiculous and will be laughed at. If the DEV team wants to fix that, then they can do a lot of things to not allow for these changes. But it is obviously clear, they do not have any intention of limiting how a person plays the game.

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I will agree there are far too many loop holes than I would like. Maybe instead of complaining about them stop adding to them.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Another "bad idea" The only sin is allowing this topic to even be discussed in such a manner and by a moderator at that.

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You are dismissing it because it'll stop you doing what you want. If players didn't 'fix' matches, they'll be no need for suggestions you dislike.

Oh. Don't make slight remarks like that, it won't end well for you. That's a yellow card.

If they aren't going to take action can they at least change the name of this event to Dishonorable Warfare cause that sure wasn't Championship Warfare

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Originally Posted by Riot

A person has the right to play the game as they see fit within the mechanics of the game (PERIOD). If the game allows them to change up the formation so they lose or win, then it is allowed and it is not an exploit. If a person uses a Maria that was bugged and not intended to be in the game but uses it in CWF, that is an exploit. Notice the two difference?

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i had missed this part in all your verbal diarrhea and like to respond to it directly:
i know the difference but you obviously dont. let me explain it to you, so someone with your intellectual superiority will understand. in your above example:
player A is exploiting the in-game mechanics while player B is cheating by exploiting a bug.
you are talking about two different things. you are either not realizing that or obliterate to your own excuses that your wishful thinking turns into your personal reality.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Riot

No one is "defending". Just stating the obvious and the facts.

The only "masquerade" is your self righteousness. I'd like to see what you would do if you were in a position similar to me and Fleur and see what you do.

It is always easy to talk and say it is not fair until you are in the situation.

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i would always try to win every single match and for the same reason i suggested to have a counter for the won and lost games and base the total of tickets on that instead of a betting system to give the CW more integrity and make losers like you either take the crown or the same bad rewards as everyone else does who didnt make it into the top 8.

ps: and yes you are defending yourself and if may add, you are doing a really bad job doing so. i'd suggest to better shush or you will drag yourself even further down the gutter

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Originally Posted by Riot

Who was that, your two alts?

ROFL

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Really? Laughing at people quitting...

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Originally Posted by Riot

I'd like to see what you would do if you were in a position similar to me and Fleur and see what you do.

It is always easy to talk and say it is not fair until you are in the situation.

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Feel like making that donation? Because until then, none of us will know what it's like to have more money than sense.

And again... you had no reason to throw your last fights apart from feeding your guild mates and alts with sure bets. You already won and were stuck with the crown... At least Fleur had a reason.

Question of interest:

If Tynon takes away our privilege of betting in cwf, then how are 'non-coiners' like me supposed to progress in the game if we can't get things such as purple medals, certain chips, and hero cards often enough to keep up with others?
I have much better things to spend my daily and Saturday sail gems on!

Another question of interest:

Why would you throw a final fight because you got bad/useless chips being given to you?
Those bad/useless chips I would kill for.
Remember, something is better than nothing... please argue on that statement :)

The color of chip argument, and the crown argument go out the window when it is still the same 2 in the final as eventually you will earn crowns and hit every possible color until someone else gets up there to win.
In the meantime, all the rest of us can do is bet to max our own tickets, no need to watch, just check who is stripped -

The Dev's could set things up differently, but so far it seems they either have; no time, resources to address it OR no intention to do so.

(sidenote: when did mods get yellow cards? Forum isn't a sport)

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Originally Posted by davidschlebusch_6020359

Question of interest:

If Tynon takes away our privilege of betting in cwf, then how are 'non-coiners' like me supposed to progress in the game if we can't get things such as purple medals, certain chips, and hero cards often enough to keep up with others?
I have much better things to spend my daily and Saturday sail gems on!

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If they do, hopefully they replace it with more fights rather than just getting knocked out. Depending how this works, I'd say most people should get more tickets than they did from betting.

Also, just spend tickets on medals. The can get credits from banish and chips from the labs, but yes, the tickets are very important for medals.

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Originally Posted by davidschlebusch_6020359

Another question of interest:

Why would you throw a final fight because you got bad/useless chips being given to you?
Those bad/useless chips I would kill for.
Remember, something is better than nothing... please argue on that statement :)

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With the crown system, they are assuming losing now means they get to win later (and this is probably correct). It's a good reason for Fleur, who avoided the crown, but Riot didn't seem to have a good reason to power down.

Its against forum rules to discuss exploits, ergo it cant be an exploit as the post is still active

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Originally Posted by MrB

Its against forum rules to discuss exploits, ergo it cant be an exploit as the post is still active

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Yes it is but since the fact whether it's an exploit or not is technically in dispute (that is a legal or illegal exploit) and the person concerned has admitted to match fixing. No accusations have been made.

Where's DAVE? Dave Mata - where are you? You may shed some insight on this for us all .... but alas sight unseen or heard of in how long???

I see dead people. Where oh where are our devs??

If u want to speak with dave just pop over to evony, hes always there

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Originally Posted by kaisim_2492829

so far on 92 two players have quit based on last nights "fixing" of matches and said good bye to us. i cant say names on the forum but one of them was a VIP9. :mad:

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to put that much cash into a game and then leave cause you missed out a a few tickets is a bit of a over reaction imo.
the game allows you to put any formation you want into a fight it dosnt state anyware that you must use your best gear and all hero spots so what they did is not a cheat it also dosent say that they have to make sure they let you guys win tickets.

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Originally Posted by wallaceboro_5110503

to put that much cash into a game and then leave cause you missed out a a few tickets is a bit of a over reaction imo.
the game allows you to put any formation you want into a fight it dosnt state anyware that you must use your best gear and all hero spots so what they did is not a cheat it also dosent say that they have to make sure they let you guys win tickets.

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you guys have to stop whining about your tickets. this is not about tickets. that night i for example bet the first 10 matches on fleur (used 10 gems on match 6) and the 11th on blayd (used 10 gems here again. i still think he clicked on update too late and didnt get them all in).
so, i got a fair amount of tickets and i am guessing everyone else as well. however while we where in guild chat the player with the higher power (not allowed to state the name) as far as i understood, was mad in particular about fixing the matches. if you forget about tickets and look at the game as is, as far as we have come and what we accomplished in it; you will notice that literally the last thing for some to do is to "show off" in CW and have some fun against stronger players, have some good matches. use the limited strategies we have in game and i enjoy watching other matches and gamble some gems too by placing bids. its fun and can be a small rush too. but being almost forced to watch 2 players fix the match by 1 powering down the first 6 matches and the other powering down for the following 5 and calling it strategie is bad, boring and even hurts ucools gemsales, because if players dont bet gems they dont have to buy more.

I completely agree with everything kaisim has said in this thread so far.

Also... could it be...

That maybe, Blayd bought Fleur's account? :)

what yee are arguing about is game dynamics ... any player can choose to give up a fight at any time .. thats fine. Any player can inform his/her opposition that they will do so . Inside the rules of the game this is perfectly acceptable .

so , how do we fix this ? Well we gotta change the rules .. How does that happen ? Well maybe a vote or concensus of some kind . When has that ever happened ?
Never , i get the point !

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Originally Posted by mrridge2003_6469743

what yee are arguing about is game dynamics ... any player can choose to give up a fight at any time .. thats fine. Any player can inform his/her opposition that they will do so . Inside the rules of the game this is perfectly acceptable .

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you are actually wrong here and players are not supposed to communicate with each other during CW, for the same reason there is no chat window. you talking about being within the rules and that would imply that fixing fights and driving even more players away from the game is intended, but i strongly believe that if you would be able to ask any dev, GM or whoever about the matter then they would all disagree.
also rigging fights is rather counterproductive to in-game dynamics and interrupts the intended flow.

ps: i wonder who's alt this is, since it took you 15 months to do your first 2 posts lol

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Originally Posted by mrridge2003_6469743

so , how do we fix this ? Well we gotta change the rules .. How does that happen ? Well maybe a vote or concensus of some kind . When has that ever happened ?
Never , i get the point !

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nothing to vote on, the TOS was written before the CW was implemented. as such ucool reserved the rights to change it at anytime they please and have no obligations to inform you about it.
no vote, no census and no one cares for your, mine or anyone else's opinion at ucool (maybe the mods have influence if they would contact them? no clue). dawnseeker was the last to start an official poll (was about moving GW times i believe) and even tho most voted on something else, ucool did what they thought was the best for the game.

Maybe there needs to be a CW section in ToS before anyone tries to make a valid argument. Until then you should all simmer down.

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Originally Posted by Herby

That maybe, Blayd bought Fleur's account? :)

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you got me Herby! I paid a dollar for his account. $.99 more than what your account is worth. rofl

Given that Tynon has not weighed in on the issue of powering down for CW, I would not say it is an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Sounds like we need to make sure that guild members face each other sooner. Long before the finals. We're not going to punish Yue since he really did not cheat. It was a ridiculous situation to happen though.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

I agree with this mostly. Yue did not do anything wrong, but we certainly made an oversight allowing this to occur. The problem is guildmates fighting each other in the later rounds. We should arrange the brackets so they instead fight each other in the early rounds.

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Though different context, the same situation applies to this cw and any of the others which fights were thrown. I'll just highlight the key words for those who are still stuck on this being a exploit.

"We're not going to punish Yue since he really did not cheat"

"Yue did not do anything wrong"

Same idea of throwing a match, whether or not your "ethics" say it was good or bad since yue at the time was helping a guild mate matters not in the fact that it was deemed not to be against the ToS.

The only solace I have is knowing tynon has already declared its not an exploit, so all ya'll crying will amount to nothing.

can't we just drop this already? it's been beaten to death after every other CW with a new thread. it happens and tynon won't do anything about it, get over it and move on.

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Originally Posted by FlandreScarlet_7896971

Though different context, the same situation applies to this cw and any of the others which fights were thrown. I'll just highlight the key words for those who are still stuck on this being a exploit.

"We're not going to punish Yue since he really did not cheat"

"Yue did not do anything wrong"

Same idea of throwing a match, whether or not your "ethics" say it was good or bad since yue at the time was helping a guild mate matters not in the fact that it was deemed not to be against the ToS.

The only solace I have is knowing tynon has already declared its not an exploit, so all ya'll crying will amount to nothing.

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i agree with dawn said that they are not cheating and no one, absolutely no one accused them of cheating. they are being accused of fixing the fights to exploit the ticket system so they can milk higher profits out of the game for themselves, their alts and friends.
i dont recall exactly how it was back then but if i remember right (and please correct me if i am wrong) but the accused player threw all matches to a guild mate. so in our case here they switched with powering down and knew exactly when to power down and when to power up. they didnt even alternate and admitted to be exploiting and throwing battles on purpose (to remind you: for "crowns and chips").
yue on the other hand (if i remember right) would have been the clear winner and gave all the matches to a guild mate and never powered back up to make any profit from it.

THAT is the true difference in it that you fail to see.

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Originally Posted by DaBooMan

Maybe there needs to be a CW section in ToS before anyone tries to make a valid argument. Until then you should all simmer down.

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Maybe there should be a section on swapping maps out and sinking continuously, powering down for HP (I know you guys on s1 don't power down, I'm just talking generally) , knocking yourself down in Arena to farm, hiding out in HR to attack players..... and so on. All of these are exploits. Bending the gameplay to get the best rewards. As I've said numerous times, what is considered a legal or illegal exploit is down to uCool. The main issue here is no one really understanding what an exploit is.

I will add that no one here has accused anyone of cheating.

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Originally Posted by Dawnseeker

Sounds like we need to make sure that guild members face each other sooner. Long before the finals. We're not going to punish Yue since he really did not cheat. It was a ridiculous situation to happen though.

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Tynon changed it after this event to prevent guildies reaching the final together. He also said that match fixing is ridiculous and I agree.

If you don't want the chips or crowns-don't enter CWF. If you have managed to completely max out your heroes on saints and stars, then you don't need the tickets either. It might also save all this grief if you quietly bowed out and let someone else strive for the glory. The real underlying issue here is that we have two players who in their own right have done well but aren't that interested in winning CWF when plenty out there secretly wish they could. It's annoying to see it being treated so flippantly and until everyone grasps that this will never get any better.

The unwritten rule in any sport or game is if you don't enjoy it don't play it.

*Stretches* *yawns* Who cares?

There is no rule that says you have to try your damnedest to win CW. So if people want to throw the fight then its the individuals choice. The only people whining are those who lose their bets.

Morgan: Maybe there should be a section on swapping maps out and sinking continuously, powering down for HP (I know you guys on s1 don't power down, I'm just talking generally) , knocking yourself down in Arena to farm, hiding out in HR to attack players..... and so on. All of these are exploits. Bending the gameplay to get the best rewards. As I've said numerous times, what is considered a legal or illegal exploit is down to uCool. The main issue here is no one really understanding what an exploit is.


I completely disagree that that these are exploits. Hiding in HR to attack is a strategy in a war game. Sinking ships is supposed to happen, losing maps is expected. (now who runs the acct that is passed to is another matter) Kinda dirty, but not an exploit. Same goes for moving in arena, and choosing your form, if it happens to be on a Friday - not an exploit. So I go with the issue of throwing matches in CW as not an exploit, it is well within all boundries to choose your form. The ethics of doing so may be in question, but not against any rule that I know of.

P.S. Just wanted to add; an exploit is like using your clock to shorten the sail time, thereby reducing your chances to get sunk, as a prime example.

As I was saying, no one really understands what an exploit is. This comes under the category of game play exploits. It's working as intended but at the same time it's not. I don't think the intention was ever for players to fix matches or bounce about the Arena or set HP to make it easier.

There are bug exploits, lag or disconnect, twinking and so on. Often players are unaware it's an exploit, which is why I wanted to make it clear no cheating as occurred.

Got it now guys, awesome. Back to my sick bed.

Got it now? Is that as player or you pulling the mod card again? That is rather rude.

So if I entered CW and left only main in for KO round1 and got knocked out, would we be having the same debate?
If not why not?
Same rules should apply to all

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Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

Back to my sick bed.

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I was not aware you are still sick. I don't know what it is you have, but hope you get better soon. Mental stress plays a lot into the length of the healing process, so it may be best if you focus on getting better and stay away from the game until you are fully healed.

Mean while I will keep everyone in check on the forum :p

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Originally Posted by service_8572198

So if I entered CW and left only main in for KO round1 and got knocked out, would we be having the same debate?
If not why not?
Same rules should apply to all

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You probably know what's different otherwise you wouldn't bring this up as an example but... your intentions and what you stand to gain count for something. But for the most part, until Tynon Devs wake up and do/say something, it is not the players fault but the game's.

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Originally Posted by MisChief

P.S. Just wanted to add; an exploit is like using your clock to shorten the sail time, thereby reducing your chances to get sunk, as a prime example.

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that would be actually cheating by exploiting a bug

Exactly my point kaisim. The point was that hitting in HR, hidden or not, is part of the game as designed, and not an exploit of it's intent as Morgan said. Neither is robbing maps or sinking ships at sea.

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Originally Posted by Riot

I was not aware you are still sick. I don't know what it is you have, but hope you get better soon. Mental stress plays a lot into the length of the healing process, so it may be best if you focus on getting better and stay away from the game until you are fully healed.

Mean while I will keep everyone in check on the forum :p

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I prefer plaid.