Haze members "Rage" booted.

[TrueGod]

Skrubs you dont understand. and YOUR HOST was the one that promoted him to VICE host...seeing he is the only one with that power. One of the major roles of making someone a vice host is so they have the power to kick people. I WANT that power for my Vice Hosts....what if there is some crazy nub spamming chat? BOOM. Kicked. Even when I am not online. Or when the guild is full and we need to make space for a friend. BOOM. The friend is in. Even when I am not online. The point is, I like this BOOM, and without this kicking ability, Vice Hosts are not BOOM. They are SPLAT.

Sorry Skrubs but i have to agree with Tynon on that one and so sorry for what happend hope u guys get back again

[Skrubs]

TrueGod.... did you even read what I've posted?

I appreciate the kind words about getting our members back, but the issue of the roles of Vice Host were never the topic of this discussion.

[Vaki]

The only issue I see about behavior like this being allowed in this game is the fact that you can donate real money for contributions (gems) if you so choose. If you do that and are booted and donated 100 gems 1 time that is $10 you just blew because someone raged.

At the same time, its like has already been stated, it's up to the Guild's host to determine the best fit for a vice host. Being ex-Haze myself, it is clear that Frank and Mick hardly ever talked due to their opposite play times, so I don't know where it came in to play that Mick became vice-host. So due to that fact, it's just as much Frank's error in judgement to blame for the event as it was Mick's for committing it. If someone can't act like an adult as a vice host, the warning signs were likely there beforehand, the Host never being on at the same time lets those instances go along unnoticed. Presidents have lost re-election due to their officials doing less than favorable things (only through that in because of the VP comparisson earlier on.)

At the end of the day, when you are donating and what not to a guild, you need to be aware that it isn't permanent contribution, that you may be kicked for any or no reason and with or without warning, just like any other game that has ever had an alliance or guild system. I'm 100% positive that not 1 person in this Beta is a first time gamer and likely has played at least 1 other game in which there was a guild system (for most it was Evony). Every server of Evony you see someone rage on their alliance and kick anyone and everyone that they possibly can for various different misguided reasons. It's part of the game and the company itself should not be held responsible to rectify the situation.

That's my 2 cents from someone who was in Haze right before the kick-fest started. (I got out just in time to make it to iDeadly before the fallout.)

[Skrubs]

The only issue I see about behavior like this being allowed in this game is the fact that you can donate real money for contributions (gems) if you so choose. If you do that and are booted and donated 100 gems 1 time that is $10 you just blew because someone raged.

At the same time, its like has already been stated, it's up to the Guild's host to determine the best fit for a vice host. Being ex-Haze myself, it is clear that Frank and Mick hardly ever talked due to their opposite play times, so I don't know where it came in to play that Mick became vice-host. So due to that fact, it's just as much Frank's error in judgement to blame for the event as it was Mick's for committing it. If someone can't act like an adult as a vice host, the warning signs were likely there beforehand, the Host never being on at the same time lets those instances go along unnoticed. Presidents have lost re-election due to their officials doing less than favorable things (only through that in because of the VP comparisson earlier on.)

At the end of the day, when you are donating and what not to a guild, you need to be aware that it isn't permanent contribution, that you may be kicked for any or no reason and with or without warning, just like any other game that has ever had an alliance or guild system. I'm 100% positive that not 1 person in this Beta is a first time gamer and likely has played at least 1 other game in which there was a guild system (for most it was Evony). Every server of Evony you see someone rage on their alliance and kick anyone and everyone that they possibly can for various different misguided reasons. It's part of the game and the company itself should not be held responsible to rectify the situation.

That's my 2 cents from someone who was in Haze right before the kick-fest started. (I got out just in time to make it to iDeadly before the fallout.)

You had me with the first line... we have differing views from then on. Those who contributed lost real life money because someone raged. You make a valid point in saying that a person needs to go into a guild knowing that they could get kicked. It is in the Game's best interest to protect those who invested money in the game. (everyone's for that matter) To lose that $10 because of a raging toxic player is terrible. That said, I do not think that the game has any responsibility in replacing the lost items. I just feel that they can protect players from this type of behavior if they set a precedent of consequences. I know that life is harsh. I know that sh!t happens. What I'm saying is that IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PART OF THE GAME IF WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE. People who do what BIGBADMICK did should be punished in some way. If a person decides to rage kick all the members of guild, they should understand that if they do, they could face consequences. If we, as a community, allow this to happen then I guess we deserve it.

Again, I do not know why the position was given to BIGBADMICK. Perhaps Frank thought that having someone on from another time zone would ensure that there was a leader online at all times. I do not know this.

I appreciate your point of view Vaki, and thanks for making sense. I just don't really understand why "It's just part of the game." is acceptable. The community can make their wishes known. I don't think that the game is responsible for replacing any items lost, I was just asking if there was anything that could be done.

Are there game rules posted anywhere? Are there established pre-conceived consequences for breaking them? Where can they be found? How will I know if the person applying for my guild has a tendency to cheat/break rules that could earn my guild a punishment? Should the game do something about situations like this? Those are the questions that need to be answered. The game is still being developed. This is the time to speak up and say what we like and what we don't. If BIGBADMICK and other players like him can get away with what he did, I don't want that! Just because you may be used to it in OTHER games, doesn't mean you have to stand for it here.

I'm glad that you got into the guild you wanted Vaki, and I wish you only the best.

[Darkz]

I think everything is fine, and donating to the guild adds to your rep so you don't lose everything exactly...and donating is a type of a risk. If u trust your guild then you donate more. Trusted guilds are more successful guilds.

[Vaki]

I'm glad that you got into the guild you wanted Vaki, and I wish you only the best.

I don't know if this line was intended to be a jab or not, but I was completely content in Haze (you can ask Tynon, I turned down an invite the other day) until these issues started to arise. When I saw the inevitable destruction on the guild, I high-tailed it out of there, knowing there was nothing I could do to fix it.

So far as "It's just part of the game" being acceptable, it isn't, but it also isn't the responsibility of the company to reprimand someone for a poor choice they made that was well within the parameters of what their rank allows them to do. It's up to the players who were booted to seek out their revenge in whatever way they can, not the game to punish Mick. He didn't exploit a bug or hack the system to do it. Those are pretty much the only time a game should step in and punish someone for their actions.

So far as if there were rules posted anywhere or consequences for breaking them, I'm not positive, as I am like every other American ever presented with a form in their life that isn't an Attorney. I look for the signature box or check box and move on without reading. It's quite possible there was a ToS or a code of conduct when we signed up, that doesn't mean everyone read it, it just means everyone checked a box that said they did. I checked beta.tynon.com and could not find a link to any ToS or rules on there, however, so that may need to be something Tynon will have to look into in an attempt to clear up any future questionable actions by a player so that the other players know if it was something against the rules or if the guy who did it is just a douche by nature.

[Skrubs]

First, I just wanna say that it most certainly was not a jab. Trust me, if I have a problem with someone they know about it. I'm being sincere.

The questions about the rules and stuff were't so I could don the bifocals and put together a Supreme Court case... I just really would like to know. I'm like you, I just sign and move on too... It's like that episode of South Park in that regard...

I know I am making a big deal out of what many see as "nothing". But it's not nothing if it happens to you. You chose to leave, the others didn't.

I agree that bug exploits, hacking, and yes even language should be the primary focus of the Game Operators. I like the term "Questionable Actions". I'm asking if there might be a system where "Questionable Actions" could be heard. I know it would take manpower and time to do so, but it makes sense to me. Since so many want to compare this to other games... I play (sometimes) a free online game that has a player based review board. Once a player is "REPORTED" they review the report and submit punishment or whatever.

If we had a similar mechanic here, the community could govern itself. A player could have their reputation lowered as a punishment, for example. Or even be demoted if the infraction is deemed serious enough. Repeat offenders before the board of review could even face a temporary ban. Anything more than that should come from Game Operators. If a player decided to be a jerk and knows they could face consequences, they may think twice.

[Vaki]

Well I did manage to find this on the beta.tynon.com page regarding TOS.

"The most current version of the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy can be reviewed by clicking on the "Terms of Service" and “Privacy Policy” hypertext link located at tynon.ucool.com."

Posted that quote without clicking the link. It just takes you back to the Beta.tynon.com page, so no rules to be found, just the standard ToS/PP that every game has.

[Skrubs]

Thanks for the effort! It's appreciated.

[Jupitor]

The point is that we should not allow this to be a part of the game. There should be consequences. That's what this thread is about.

It's a game where players work and play together. If something like this happens, it is not the place of the game reps to step in and intervene. The host made a bad selection for a vice host, likely someone who has never held that position or any like it in any game and it was an abuse of power. But it isn't the games fault, it falls solely on the player who did it. That's how these games play out...