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Thread: [Hero Concept Suggestion] - Zurin, The Lightning's Will

  1. #11
    I like it. I'm not worried about the balance of the concept, obviously if they were to use any portion of the idea they'd do the work of balancing themselves.

  2. #12
    how about a hero that can't be damage by Physical attack lol. Like a Shadowy man. hmmm come to think about it, i think its a stupid idea for shadow man. LOL. waste of Hero slots.

    "Relinquish your pain unto me"

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Klepto View Post
    Base damage just means the base damage of the skill, which can be any fraction of the Magic Attack statistic that is balanced.

    For instance (and not necessarily balanced here, this is just an example), we could make it function off the same damage calculation Smoulder uses for a single target. Smoulder can hit up to 5 targets with good hit rating for what we'll call 500% damage.

    Zurin hits a single target for 100% damage (base damage).

    Zurin arcs to a second enemy target for 150% damage. Our total damage is 250% of base. This has a 30% likelihood of occurring with zero Critical chance. Remember also that the 30% number can be tweaked for balance if adding Critical chance makes the likelihood of achieving strong arcs too high.

    Zurin arcs to a third enemy target for 200% damage. Our total damage is 450% of base, or under Smoulder's maximum potential at this point. This has a (.3*.3)=9% chance of occurring on a given attack with zero Critical chance.

    Zurin arcs to a fourth enemy target for 250% damage. Our total damage is now 700% of base, which is over Smoulder's maximum potential for a single attack. This has a (.3*.3*.3)=2.7% chance of occurring, which is statistically unlikely, with zero Critical chance. So under 1 in 37 attacks Zurin makes could exceed Smoulder's maximum damage. This would be an ideal damage scenario for Zurin that will almost never happen. Remember also that to achieve that level of damage, Zurin failed to apply any buffs to friendly heroes for that turn.

    Further, I stated in the concept that the number of arcs can be adjusted for balance. 4 arcs is what I'm using to illustrate the combos here, but if the additional attack buff or the potential damage is considered dangerous the arcs can be reduced to 3, although I consider it fun to allow more arcs and potential for chaining since Zurin's base damage can be adjusted and additional attacks for a random hero may be incredibly impactful or underwhelming, depending on whether it lands on a high damage dealer or a tank. The part of this hero concept that is fun is that Critical chance actually has a purpose for this mage and chaining the attack toward one side of the battlefield or the other can turn the tide of a battle, which is the entire point of having Zurin in your formation, because he offers indirect power.

    Remember also that Zurin is most likely (70% chance for each arc) to bounce from one side of the battlefield to another, with base damage values for enemies and base buff values for friendly heroes. It is more likely that an attack will be somewhat weak instead of being incredibly powerful. Even with excessive Crit chance, Zurin can never achieve over 50% chance of chaining to the same side of the battlefield. That's what helps him to remain balanced.
    I think the balance problem here is that, this hero can perform X actions (in your example, 4 actions) all within 1 turn. The action can either be attack or buff, but overall, it gives the player too much edge over those who don't use this hero. In designing a hero, a good designer must always ask: "is there a good reason for a player not using this hero?" Otherwise, it would end up with everyone having the same build.

    Tynon's heroes have suffered the same balancing problems. Previously it was Adam who has the OP thousand strikes, but now it has been nerfed. Shayd's OP stun is somewhat nerfed by her large misses, but still OP nonetheless. This time it is bloodstorm's OP continuous rage, with the added effect of HP-related damage enhancements.

    At the present time, I cannot observe any of the top players NOT using Bloodstorm or Shayd in their formations. The only variation I have seen is the other two heroes, some use cianna/adam and rhize/calvin/dawnbringer combination. If you introduced this hero into the mix, would it further lock down the variation that people would most likely use? I think that's a pertinent question to worth contemplating.

    If you ask my opinion, if you want to keep the buff/attack values as mentioned, I would suggest X=1. Otherwise, if X>2, I would suggest scaling down all the values for the buff/attack, for example, using 0.01%*magic attack, or maybe incorporate "misses" in the overall picture.
    Last edited by koja6049; 10-31-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by koja6049 View Post
    I think the balance problem here is that, this hero can perform X actions (in your example, 4 actions) all within 1 turn. The action can either be attack or buff, but overall, it gives the player too much edge over those who don't use this hero. In designing a hero, a good designer must always ask: "is there a good reason for a player not using this hero?" Otherwise, it would end up with everyone having the same build.
    This doesn't really work as an argument with both Smoulder and Adamanti capable of hitting 5 targets in the same turn. My concept allows 3-4 arcs (possibly up to 5 but the more arcs you grant the trickier Zurin's balance becomes), which is less than the number of possible effects that Smoulder or Adamanti can create.

    "Is there a good reason for a player to not use Zurin?"

    Absolutely. For instance, during World Bosses, there would be three big contenders for a single spot here: Zurin, Bloodstorm, and Dawnbringer. Bloodstorm/Dawnbringer would bring the highest consistent damage, Zurin would offer less damage but the chance for an extra attack for Shayd, Cianna, or Calvin. If he shields a friendly teammate, that's wasted on World Bosses!

    Additionally, even in PvP it's a difficult question of who to use. Adamanti and Smoulder are primary AoE candidates. Shayd and Cianna are excellent stunners. Cianna and Rhize reach the back rows. Bloodstorm is a single target powerhouse. In truth it's not as easy as saying, "Use Zurin all the time." He doesn't put out the same damage as Adamanti or Smoulder, or even of Bloodstorm most turns. His value lies in the possibility of a shield or an extra attack for a team member, or the occasional incredibly lucky streak on an enemy for bookoo damage (again, under 1 in 37 attacks can grant this).

    Quote Originally Posted by koja6049 View Post
    Tynon's heroes have suffered the same balancing problems. Previously it was Adam who has the OP thousand strikes, but now it has been nerfed. Shayd's OP stun is somewhat nerfed by her large misses, but still OP nonetheless. This time it is bloodstorm's OP continuous rage, with the added effect of HP-related damage enhancements.
    Yes, there are powerful heroes in Tynon, but you can't use each hero for every encounter. Adamanti is a poor choice for World Bosses (even without being nerfed), as is Smoulder. Rhize is a poor choice there as well. Dawnbringer shines for encounters where enemies have grouped in vertical lines, but is terrible where the rows are more horizontal. Shayd is actually terrible if you want consistent damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by koja6049 View Post
    At the present time, I cannot observe any of the top players NOT using Bloodstorm or Shayd in their formations. The only variation I have seen is the other two heroes, some use cianna/adam and rhize/calvin/dawnbringer combination. If you introduced this hero into the mix, would it further lock down the variation that people would most likely use? I think that's a pertinent question to worth contemplating.
    No, it wouldn't lock down variation. If anything it would force you to ask the question of damage vs. utility. Zurin is a utility hero, not a crazy damage hero (unless he gets incredibly lucky once in a blue moon, but then for that turn he offers zero utility).

    Quote Originally Posted by koja6049 View Post
    If you ask my opinion, if you want to keep the buff/attack values as mentioned, I would suggest X=1. Otherwise, if X>2, I would suggest scaling down all the values for the buff/attack, for example, using 0.01%*magic attack, or maybe incorporate "misses" in the overall picture.
    X cannot equal one. If X equals one then there are no arcs, which defeats the entire thematic purpose of the hero. Misses are still a thing for Zurin when he is attacking an enemy foe (not for applying buffs). However, the way I envision it is that each arc to an enemy rolls the dice for a hit or miss, but if a miss occurs the next arc roll will still occur. This means you could potentially have all your arcs miss and still stay on the enemy side of the battlefield. That would be incredibly unlucky, but certainly a possibility. This next part is important, but if an arc does miss hitting an enemy, a "charge counter" is still added for calculating the next arc on that side of the battlefield, specifically because it makes sense thematically that a missed arc still generates additional electrical charge in the immediate area. This means that you could have the first three arcs miss completely, yet have your fourth arc strike, dealing 250% of base damage to a single target but nobody else.

    Finally, as for buff/attack values, I've already stated that they're based on the base damage of the spell, whcih is more than open to tweaking.


    Zurin's Tweakable Values

    • Base Spell Damage of Lightning's Will: Specific % of Magic Attack statistic
    • Number of Arcs: 4, but 3-5 possible
    • Base chance to arc on same side of battlefield: 30%, but 20-35% possible
    • Increased chance to arc on same side of battlefield from Critical chance: +1% per 10 Critical chance, +12.8% from 128 Critical chance from level 10 Advantage
    • Chance to cast Thundering Rampage on friendly hero strike: 50%
    • Chance to cast Static Shield on friendly hero strike: 50%
    • Base shielded health from Static Shield: Specific % of base damage of Lightning's Will
    • Base enemy miss chance: Specific % far less than either Shayd or Smoulder (Think more like Mehvidan)
    • Additive percentage boost to Lightning's Will damage on consecutive arcs to enemy targets: +50% damage per consecutive arc
    • Additive percentage boost to Static Shield health shield value on consecutive arcs to friendly targets: +50% health shielded per consecutive arc
    • Additional attacks granted for Thundering Rampage per consecutive arc on friendly targets: +1 attack per consecutive arc
    Last edited by Klepto; 10-31-2013 at 05:34 PM.

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