View Poll Results: Do you believe that getting your money back during this beta phase is a good idea?

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  • The demoralizing experiences of this game, need to be offset with a refund.

    4 40.00%
  • Money should not be refunded, that is true during any beta test.

    6 60.00%
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Thread: "Money Back Guarantee"

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay View Post
    Ok here's an extract from the ToS.



    This ToS was agreed to by all of us when we created our accounts. Whether y'all think it's fair or not isn't revelant, we all have to abide by it.
    Key words:

    "Not required" to provide a refund. But they could.

    Not receiving compensation for unused virtual enhancements if your account is closed. Since you can't voluntarily close it, the assumption is it was closed likely due to some fashion of TOS violation. Unused virtual enhancements is just the stuff you bought. There's really no language stating that a refund is not possible.

    An "evolving service." That's an interesting one to consider. In the gamer world that would imply additions or changes made in stride in a fully-functioning game. Such as quest expansions, additional events, etc. In the case of Tynon evolving service is that the game is not completed and still full of holes, to the effect that it plays like a Beta. I think the argument is whether it could be considered a finished product, and whether refund mechanisms should be in place because of all the glitches. Using common sense people are getting charged for a product that honest isn't necessarily as advertised. Some glitches, such as the star heist of showing you won some, while actually losing them and additional spending to recover cost people quite a bit of money.

    I don't think people would have as much heartache and complaints about the game if everyone understood that they were signing up for a beta. It's all the little things, like the daylight savings error costing guilds cities because of the times for events being scrambled. The guild war glitches which have been around for months. Not getting quest rewards, or sail rewards, or Baal/Cerb rewards. You don't see these in more finished products, and the prices are exorbitant compared to other games, for arguably a poorer product in comparison. Not trying to flame, there's plenty of reviews out there in the MMO field.

    Ultimately this is a really random thread. There's no way anyone's getting money back, and everyone knows it. Even if you did, the only way to do it would be get your money back in exchange for your account being killed. Otherwise it just opens the door for people being selectively upset over bad luck. That's what trouble tickets are for. I think there's a case that can be made that within the first week or two a refund might be possible, but if you've been around long enough to see how poor the product is, yet continue to spend anyways you gotta own up to that.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    But most games do not have to be patch to add content because the original release did not have enough of it for the users to be able to play at the higher levels, or at least the game limits are documented in the game documentation so you know what you are getting before you spend money. Tynon does not have this because it has no documentation.
    That's a interesting point. All the knowledge is user-generated, apparently by design for the players to work the mechanics of the game out for themselves. Though I disagree, if you look at games like (redacted) that have been around for 9 years they have a ton of additional patches and DLC. The difference is they started out with a finished product. Those on the older servers in this game have basically been playing a beta while the game continues to be developed. It's less noticeable on the newest servers because no one is close to reaching that edge.

  3. #13
    Forum Moderator Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.sassy.jasper_3887821 View Post
    That's a interesting point. All the knowledge is user-generated, apparently by design for the players to work the mechanics of the game out for themselves. Though I disagree, if you look at games like (redacted) that have been around for 9 years they have a ton of additional patches and DLC. The difference is they started out with a finished product. Those on the older servers in this game have basically been playing a beta while the game continues to be developed. It's less noticeable on the newest servers because no one is close to reaching that edge.
    An I agree that a game needs to evolve over the years, but Tynon has been around for about 5 months. In that time we have 'run out of runway' twice and in both cases it took the development team at least a week to come up with the new content. It is obvious, at least to me, that the game was not 'ready for prime time' when it got released out of beta. The developers had all the information available to them to know that the limits of the game were going to be reached and did nothing to extend the game in time for the players not to reach the limits. Since the limits were not documented the expectation of the players, or at least of this player, that there is no upper practical (achievable to the players) limit in HR, the Quest path, payer promotion level, and player level.

    I have no idea how long the game was in beta testing before it was released, but there are problems with the game design that should have been caught there. The most glaring one, that actually created a lot of the other ones, is to allow the 'super' Guilds because there is no mechanism to insure that not all the top level players are members of the same Guild and therefore causing the problems that we see in the Arena and Guild Wars.

  4. #14
    Frankly, the TOS isn't relevant. Software companies have been and will continue to be sued, and the plaintiffs will continue to get positive judgement outcomes despite the mumbo jumbo language in most TOS. As another poster stated, the legal binding-ness of any electronic terms is suspect at best. Heck, even real physical paper contracts with signatures in blue or black ink are successfully litigated against in court.

    Tynon can lean on their TOS for matters of discipline and all the internal business of the game. But once you get people paying real money for whatever you claim you're offering, that begins to delve into real life actual law and jurisprudence. And if people feel moved to utilize the judicial system available to them, that TOS will fall like a house of cards. That is why those of us who have administered online communities with any seriousness make darned sure we understand what we can and can't be sued for. And why many of us take things like harassment very seriously, no matter what the verbiage in our TOSs state as far as our actual liability.

    Besides, if you have a credit card company worth anything at all, they'll happily do a chargeback on your behalf to keep your business. Most companies do have a time limit to request such a thing. Tynon has every right to totally block/ban/restrict your access if you do happen to do a chargeback, so I certainly wouldn't use this option unless you were darned sure you never wanted to be involved in the game again.

  5. #15
    Judgment Revan's Avatar
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    Unless gems are magically disappearing, I don't see what the problem is (unless you are at the limits of what has been developed and don't have much to do then I do see some problems).

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Revan View Post
    Unless gems are magically disappearing, I don't see what the problem is (unless you are at the limits of what has been developed and don't have much to do then I do see some problems).
    I have to agree.

    "Relinquish your pain unto me"

  7. #17
    Hopebringer effeminate_1999125's Avatar
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    To Shiister (Post at 2:40 pm, Nov. 5)

    Maybe its in Beta, BUT you are allowed to spend money in Beta. Therefore, "It does not matter if it is in Beta or not, you are still entitled to a Refund." WHY? Because, "Any time you buy something, if the product is defective, and knowing that there are laws to protect consumers, that a refund is well within their legal rights." So your position, is to deny people their legal rights.

    You stated, "Beta isn't a stable version of the game, so why are you spending money on the testing platform?" FACT: "I am not spending money on the game." :-P FACT: Gems are in "cyberspace", they are not real. Therefore, a simple "data transaction" will give you the equivalent of "Free Money", a.k.a. "a refund".

    The problem with your position is... "You would turn down "free money"." And in my book, "That is Looney Tunes!" (a.k.a. "nuts") Who cares if it is in Beta or not, it does not represent "a real business loss", therefore "no harm done", and the "Beta Testers" would have a more enjoy experience because of their increase in wealth, which compensates them for any harm done, while no harm has come to the corporation.

    CONCLUSION: This is a "WIN-WIN" idea, in which everyone wins. (Now do you have an argument against that?)
    Last edited by effeminate_1999125; 11-06-2013 at 12:12 AM.

  8. #18
    Judgment Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by effeminate_1999125 View Post
    I am not the one being stupid. (It was too intelligently written, so you should have known better than that.) Now let's address your statements.

    Maybe its in Beta, BUT you are allowed to spend money in Beta. Therefore, "It does not matter if it is in Beta or not, you are still entitled to a Refund." WHY? Because, "Any time you buy something, if the product is defective, and knowing that there are laws to protect consumers, that a refund is well within their legal rights." So your position, is to deny people their legal rights.

    You stated, "Beta isn't a stable version of the game, so why are you spending money on the testing platform?" FACT: "I am not spending money on the game." :-P FACT: Gems are in "cyberspace", they are not real. Therefore, a simple "data transaction" will give you the equivalent of "Free Money", a.k.a. "a refund".

    The problem with your position is... "You would turn down "free money"." And in my book, "That is Looney Tunes!" (a.k.a. "nuts") Who cares if it is in Beta or not, it does not represent "a real business loss", therefore "no harm done", and the "Beta Testers" would have a more enjoy experience because of their increase in wealth, which compensates them for any harm done, while no harm has come to the corporation.

    CONCLUSION: This is a "WIN-WIN" idea, in which everyone wins. (Now do you have an argument against that?)
    Free money? Um... There is no such thing unless you are a central bank or a counterfeiter.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by effeminate_1999125 View Post
    CONCLUSION: This is a "WIN-WIN" idea, in which everyone wins. (Now do you have an argument against that?)
    How about you try typing this all again in understandable English.

    Your reasons for making this thread is as follows

    On Nov. 3, 2013 I lost almost "100,000", (91,241 to be exact), in the Power Rating at the top left corner of your window.
    Losing 100k power can be for any number of reasons.

    Changing your formation or runes.

    And on Nov. 4, 2013 I lost "22 Stars" for the "net gain" of "1".
    You lost 22 stars how? By upgrading right which comes with a very low chance of success.

    How do both of these reasons mean the game is defective?

    You sound like a child crying because you don't understand how Tynon run their game.

    TL;DR
    The game isn't defective because you lost 100k power.

    The game isn't defective because when upgrading you failed X number of times and lose over 22 stars while only succeeding once.

    EDIT:

    You stated, "Beta isn't a stable version of the game, so why are you spending money on the testing platform?" FACT: "I am not spending money on the game." :-P FACT: Gems are in "cyberspace", they are not real. Therefore, a simple "data transaction" will give you the equivalent of "Free Money", a.k.a. "a refund".
    Wut?

    How do you earn games without going through using the methods on the game?

    Paying for them with real life cash which in turn means you're spending money on the game.
    Last edited by Ronnie; 11-05-2013 at 08:13 PM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by effeminate_1999125 View Post
    I am not the one being stupid. (It was too intelligently written, so you should have known better than that.) Now let's address your statements.

    Maybe its in Beta, BUT you are allowed to spend money in Beta. Therefore, "It does not matter if it is in Beta or not, you are still entitled to a Refund." WHY? Because, "Any time you buy something, if the product is defective, and knowing that there are laws to protect consumers, that a refund is well within their legal rights." So your position, is to deny people their legal rights.

    You stated, "Beta isn't a stable version of the game, so why are you spending money on the testing platform?" FACT: "I am not spending money on the game." :-P FACT: Gems are in "cyberspace", they are not real. Therefore, a simple "data transaction" will give you the equivalent of "Free Money", a.k.a. "a refund".

    The problem with your position is... "You would turn down "free money"." And in my book, "That is Looney Tunes!" (a.k.a. "nuts") Who cares if it is in Beta or not, it does not represent "a real business loss", therefore "no harm done", and the "Beta Testers" would have a more enjoy experience because of their increase in wealth, which compensates them for any harm done, while no harm has come to the corporation.

    CONCLUSION: This is a "WIN-WIN" idea, in which everyone wins. (Now do you have an argument against that?)


    The words are to shiny to read to process! lol. nah kidding, I understand your point. I just find your post is kwel! hahaha!


    I'm actually a VIP in this game. I spend money in this game, because I want to support the the dev and because I like the game.

    TOS or NOT, I don't see why there should be a refund at all but Tynon is not a realistic product nor its not even defective at all. But their customer service is good I give you that. All I ever know is that you just spend real money on gems which are not realistically real. I don't know about you, but before you go spending real hard earned money you should consider one thing and ask your self this question before doing it. "Will it be worth it?".
    Last edited by lamodomo_2092870; 11-05-2013 at 09:03 PM.

    "Relinquish your pain unto me"

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