Solution to Bots, Macros, Auto-clickers, Mouse Recorders

[Herby]

I didn't consider that you can indeed create a loop to catch being bounced out of heroics as well.
Stamina cost seems the only solution, win or lose.

It would be nice to have more stamina in that case.
I find stamina low as it is already with doing 2 lab runs and crafting.
Another solution for me would be to be able to get spirittokens in another way, so one could decide not to spend 60 stamina on it.

I highly support these ideas.

I am hoping in the future, you can get spirit tokens like medals in the arena, or as shuffles in the guild chests or quest completion or heavens palace shuffles.

Maybe lowering the cost of buying stamina would help, and keep coiners happy (10 gems for 30 stamina x 5, then 20 gems for 50 stamina x 5)
Or increasing the stamina regeneration rate would definitely help everyone and make ALL the players happy.

[Kruize]

Its a tough solution you're trying to push Herby as you've decided to be very selective in the numerous facets of the game.

- World Bosses (Have a built in auto clicker)
- Lab Bosses (You aren't requiring stam per attempt due to stamina required to enter a lab)
- Quest Bosses (Opposite to Labs you want to remove stamina cost per area and apply a cost per boss attempt)
- HR Elite Bosses (Change a 5 kill cost to a 1 per attempt) [This is brutal to everyone, auto clickers or not]
- Arena Account Farmers (No stamina cost, even though it affects other players accounts)


What about other things that affect what your trying to achieve.
- Macros/Bots for rune farming (Do you want to put a cost on that too?)
- The game having an auto farming mechanic built into the game outside of world bosses. For both item upgrade collecting and leveling.
- The alternative to people who sit around for hours or for people who use auto clickers for periods of time, training. How about increasing that benefit to offer a counter to 12-24hrs of bots/macro?
- Increasing stamina regen as has been suggested affects amount of leveling stamina/labs that can be run a day which again require more changes to bring them back into line.



It's not all just black and white, and Tynon does promote auto fighting as well. So that probably gives people the idea that getting a clicker is ok because Tynon says I can go afk and farm my items/world bosses. Much would have to change to promote new culture to go with no autofights to progress.

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

[Herby]

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

In order to solve big problems, you need to start somewhere small.

[Morgan le Fay]

I've read and thought about this. Although I can see where your're going with this this suggestion Herby, it will hurt the very players who aren't usinng the auto-clicks and make it incredibly difficult to craft gear and do a labyrinth. Instead of punishing the guilty, you punish everyone and that isn't fair.

Ideas like this are all started with the best intentions but very often they increase the very effect they're supposed to reduce. Take the Evony captcha debacle. The whole idea was to stop the botters. What happened? Well by the end, more people ended up botting because they were tired of putting in the captcha. Since Evony was punishing everyone, their opinion was why play by the ToS if the game was working against the innocent.

[lamodomo_2092870]

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

[koja6049]

I've read and thought about this. Although I can see where your're going with this this suggestion Herby, it will hurt the very players who aren't usinng the auto-clicks and make it incredibly difficult to craft gear and do a labyrinth. Instead of punishing the guilty, you punish everyone and that isn't fair.

Ideas like this are all started with the best intentions but very often they increase the very effect they're supposed to reduce. Take the Evony captcha debacle. The whole idea was to stop the botters. What happened? Well by the end, more people ended up botting because they were tired of putting in the captcha. Since Evony was punishing everyone, their opinion was why play by the ToS if the game was working against the innocent.

This. QFT. If you make laws that hurt everyone other than the intended targets, you are bound to get a backlash.

[Herby]

If you think about it, 100 stamina at 2-3 mins per boss attempt means you are going to be sitting there for 3-5hrs doing nothing but heroic attempts.

And you gain a maximum of 219 stamina per day for free.

Doesn't sound that bad. Again, this is to curb the use of autoclickers, and promote the use of tactics, strategy, and planning instead of luck when tackling difficult bosses.

[Herby]

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

This is a fine idea as well! I will support this wholly!

I am sure the naysayers will try to shoot it down also.

Automation software will not benefit much from this, as you can only do 6 attempts an hour.

[Scorn]

I didn't consider that you can indeed create a loop to catch being bounced out of heroics as well.
Stamina cost seems the only solution, win or lose.

It would be nice to have more stamina in that case.
I find stamina low as it is already with doing 2 lab runs and crafting.
Another solution for me would be to be able to get spirittokens in another way, so one could decide not to spend 60 stamina on it.

It would fit with the current system running in beta to pay stamina win or lose.

(Personally I feel it would suck if it would cost 5 stamina since I am needing about 20 tries to get everything right and luck working for me at the moment XD)

Ditto the above

I am not a fan of automation software, the detail that can go into a macro makes it possible to circumvent most "solutions" (timers, cooldowns, being kicked from the area etc.) other than stamina cost per attempt.
With the addition of reserves and more armour sets to create and upkeep, challenging heroes and HR costing per attempt stamina is going to be even more of an issue than it has been in a while and could persist. I'm not entirely sure a blanket increase in stamina regen would be necessary but perhaps tie it to level and increase the maximum amount of stamina permissible too. Personally I would like to see stamina go from 0 to max in 24 hours.

Its a tough solution you're trying to push Herby as you've decided to be very selective in the numerous facets of the game.

- World Bosses (Have a built in auto clicker)
- Lab Bosses (You aren't requiring stam per attempt due to stamina required to enter a lab)
- Quest Bosses (Opposite to Labs you want to remove stamina cost per area and apply a cost per boss attempt) Didn't see this suggested and don't feel it is an issue, HR bosses dictate progression a lot more than quest bosses
- HR Elite Bosses (Change a 5 kill cost to a 1 per attempt) [This is brutal to everyone, auto clickers or not]
- Arena Account Farmers (No stamina cost, even though it affects other players accounts) Don't find this to be an issue, if someone is stronger than you I feel they have every right to stakes which I feel belong to nobody till the timer is up


What about other things that affect what your trying to achieve.
- Macros/Bots for rune farming (Do you want to put a cost on that too?) Measure are in place to limit bot effectiveness especially with reserves on the way - non-issue
- The game having an auto farming mechanic built into the game outside of world bosses. For both item upgrade collecting and leveling. Don't see how this affects what Herby and Wild are trying to achieve
- The alternative to people who sit around for hours or for people who use auto clickers for periods of time, training. How about increasing that benefit to offer a counter to 12-24hrs of bots/macro?
- Increasing stamina regen as has been suggested affects amount of leveling stamina/labs that can be run a day which again require more changes to bring them back into line. As far as I am concerned these have been put out of line with the need for more armour sets, and labs are controlled via gems and VIP levels anyway so - non-issue



It's not all just black and white, and Tynon does promote auto fighting as well. So that probably gives people the idea that getting a clicker is ok because Tynon says I can go afk and farm my items/world bosses. Much would have to change to promote new culture to go with no autofights to progress. Disagree that much would need to change but curbing the most abused problem as I see it lately is a good place to start.

Something can be done, but your solution is far too simple for the problem.

[Scorn]

or instead of stamina, have a 10 mins cool down, how about that?

Seriously limits people who don't have much time to spend in game, say for instance john doe has 2 hours to play a day, 12 attempts... Little rough on the casual gamer, even more so given the result button, still prefer stamina cost.