What a Ripoff

[Andy]

I am really getting tired of hearing that the game is rigged because it does not work the way you want it to work. It works as designed and therefore it is not rigged. If it was designed not to predetermine what you get and instead actually shuffle the cards (yes I know that is what the button says) and place them on the slots and then move then around after you pick one then it would be rigged because you did not get the card that was in the spot that you picked. The way it is, the card you get is determined at random using the odds set on the game (and not stated anywhere). Since this is the way it is supposed to work then it is not rigged.

The problem is with the player's expectations and that is because there is no explanation as to how the game actually works provided by Tynon. Just because it does not meet your or some one elses expectations it does not mean it is rigged.

When I buy a lottery ticket my expectation is to win. Is the lottery rigged because I do not? In this case my expectation is unfounded because in the back of the ticket it gives you the odds of winning. In the case of the Tavern the way it works is documented in the wiki. The -New-to-the-game-Read-This! sticky thread in the Newbie Welcome section of the forum says Visit the Tynon Wiki at http://tynon.wikia.com. There is an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink. By extension the horse should not complain if it becomes thirsty.

[Swagmaster_556383]

The lottery is very different, as it is truly based on random chance and anyone who plays has exactly the same odds of winning. As for the cards, I don't have a problem with it not giving me the card I wanted. I play the lottery as well and when I don't win I know this is because the numbers I chose did not match the numbers pulled. But when I pick a card in the Tavern and do not get the card I wanted I know it is because the game has predetermined, or rigged, the outcome. It is the removal of chance from the equation that makes it rigged. There is no chance element in this and that is what makes it rigged.

[Andy]

The lottery is very different, as it is truly based on random chance and anyone who plays has exactly the same odds of winning. As for the cards, I don't have a problem with it not giving me the card I wanted. I play the lottery as well and when I don't win I know this is because the numbers I chose did not match the numbers pulled. But when I pick a card in the Tavern and do not get the card I wanted I know it is because the game has predetermined, or rigged, the outcome. It is the removal of chance from the equation that makes it rigged. There is no chance element in this and that is what makes it rigged.

Then by your definition every game is rigged because every game is a computer program and the results are always predetermined. I will grant yo that it could be programmed to truly shuffle the cards and give was in the position that you pick, but if they did that then they you have to significantly reduce the number of times that a Gold or Purple hero appeared in order to maintain the odds that the game designers decided should be used for getting a Purple of Gold hero. If they did that then the number of Spirits awarded would go down.

What it comes down to is that the game was designed to behave this way. It is actually documented in the wiki that that is the way it behaves. You chose to play the game of your own free will, so I do not see why you should accuse the designers of rigging the game, and that is what you are doing sibe the game behaves as design. You obviously do not agree with the design and would like them to change it, but the designers have done nothing wrong. They do listen to the players about changes to the game (I.E. making removal of lv 4 and above chips free and allow staking in the bank to go up to 99) so discussion of design changes is a good thing.

My objection is that "rigged" has a connotation of being deceiving. Since the behaviour of the Tavern id documented in the wiki, there is no deception involved.

[DrthCaedus]

The lottery is very different, as it is truly based on random chance and anyone who plays has exactly the same odds of winning. As for the cards, I don't have a problem with it not giving me the card I wanted. I play the lottery as well and when I don't win I know this is because the numbers I chose did not match the numbers pulled. But when I pick a card in the Tavern and do not get the card I wanted I know it is because the game has predetermined, or rigged, the outcome. It is the removal of chance from the equation that makes it rigged. There is no chance element in this and that is what makes it rigged.

Hey swag...you do realize that the meaning of shuffle means to move cards right? The cards move because there is a shuffle, you can't get mad at that lol. Admitidely you could get mad at the seemingly impossible number of failures, but once you recognize that it is actually related to specific odds on the hero. (adam is perhaps a 1/200 chance, blood 1/300, cianna 1/50, etc.) you see how fair the predictable the tavern really is, and I just enjoy flipping the cards over it's not a ripoff in anyway as it becomes rather obvious after about 3 or 4 days that the tavern is not a 1/5 chance. I do think they should make that clear however.

[Yelsha]

It just all depends on luck. Yes, sometimes it takes me over 2M credits to boost for Cerb in the morning. Then afternoon I get to 80% using just 4 clicks... not a single fail, that is. It all balances out.

The, "random number," generators they use in the computer games are not truly random, since its not possible to code one.
They rely on long strings, or sequences of pre-generated values.
Hence, its possible to have a long string of bad luck but also possible to have a long string of good luck.
Same applies to every aspect of the game. One morning, I spent 60M coins and got ZERO fragments. Later that night, I spent another 60M and got 30 fragments, hence I do not complain about getting 0 fragments in the morning.
Sometimes in Tavern I'll get 3 golds/purples 4-5 times in a row, then right after go 30 refreshes of only whites/blues.

Even if it costed me 2M credits EVERY TIME, I'd say its still worth it since I get well over 10M credits each 1.25B banish and still a good 3-4M every 250M banish.
Boosting for Rag you usually will not recover your credits unless you are one of the top players on your server, but its usually done for reputation or fun.

Also, if you think about it in terms of gems, doing 80% boost using gems would cost 20 gems, which can buy you 2M credits at fair and up 10M credits for me at shrine right now. Currently, it seems on average it costs well less than 1M credits to boost to 80%, so boosting is credits is worth it no matter which way you look at it.

How would you like it you could ONLY do boosts using gems, and not credits? Believe it or not, that's how a lot of other similiar games are. Hence, allowing players to boost with credits is a great favor Tynon is doing the players.

[SPAWN_901238]

You people should all check yourselves. I never see anything nice in these forums anymore. Fix your lives and remember this is a game.

[Andy]

How many times do I have to say that is documented in the wiki? If people do not read the documentation they should not complain.

[Riot]

How many times do I have to say that is documented in the wiki? If people do not read the documentation they should not complain.

I read the wiki and it does not show where the cards are fixed, etc. Please show me the actual link to the page. I tried searching it.

Thanks

[DrthCaedus]

How many times do I have to say that is documented in the wiki? If people do not read the documentation they should not complain.

The fact is that players shouldn't be expected to go to a wiki to get an accurate representation of things within the game. The tavern makes it appear that whenever a card shows up there is a 1/5 chance of selecting it. They should make it clearer that the rare heroes have much lower odds than 1/5 in the tavern. Wiki's are wonderful, but they should've be used as an excuse for sloppy formatting and design.

[Andy]

The fact is that players shouldn't be expected to go to a wiki to get an accurate representation of things within the game. The tavern makes it appear that whenever a card shows up there is a 1/5 chance of selecting it. They should make it clearer that the rare heroes have much lower odds than 1/5 in the tavern. Wiki's are wonderful, but they should've be used as an excuse for sloppy formatting and design.

http://tynon.wikia.com/wiki/Heaven_Tavern

Odds:Edit

You would think that the odds of obtaining a card in the shown set of 5 is 1 in 5, however this is not true. The deck is actually just an illusion and the card(up to 3) that you will actually receive (or not receive) is predetermined. The odds of flipping over a hero when it is in the deck you play is probably on par with obtaining a gold rune from the rune temple. It seems to be around 1.25% - 2.5% chance of flipping over the gold card.