Patch: More Balanced Guild Warfare

[scot_202809]

We can do more than gripe and threaten, but instead be a part of the SOLUTION. Many of us, myself included, have brought forth creative alternatives / adjustments on how to fix the problems, whether they be adjusted math calculations or how to solve the alt-stuffing concerns. Several of these ideas have been forwarded to the Devs by Dawnseeker.

As for myself, I've been soloing vast armies for months and it's boring as f***. So boring that I decided to leave the guild I created and go help out noobs. And guess what? I still soloed the top guild and we took a few cities. Again boring.

With these new changes my guild of 50 noobs (38 showed up for GW) have less population than our two rivals (who have ~70 each), and we lost all our cities. Every single one.
And guess what ... I LOVE IT! We have a CHALLENGE again! Something to fight for!
The glass is half full for us. The game is not over for us. It's just beginning!

And in the meantime people like myself, Herby, mattp, and more are bringing up ideas on how to *refine* the changes to solve the new challenges it created (such as alt-stuffing).
You can still be right and have the wrong attitude. The only people who are wrong are those who have monopolized their servers and bullied/chased away server population, and now griping about wanting their monopoly back (all 9-10 cities).

Oh, that's right....I didn't offer any suggestions or potential solutions, did I?

Wait, I did. And they were all DAMNED GOOD ones, too.

However, you marginalized my input, opinions and communication with the Tynon devs as only 'gripe and threaten' lingo.
I've noticed in the past, it's the ONLY way we can seem to get their attention. The unions have used this tactic for about 100 years.
It's called a strike, look into it.

Even Mattp169 noticed your overtly rude overtones when he said: "honestly i think you are reading some of what people say the wrong way and are being rude to them in turn. More flies with honey i tell ya ".

So my suggestions apparently aren't good enough for you to include in your little list, you use suggested profanity (the "F-Bomb") and treat others here with valid input and suggestions in a rude manner. To quote you earlier on this same page:
"Emotional reaction is a manifestation of psychological instability."

And Dawnseeker....really? I am extremely disappointed in you for commenting that rude behavior and expletives are somehow supposed to be acceptable and 'well said'.

Now, can we please move on and simply re-focus on those potential 'refinements' that you mentioned? Thank you.

[mcowper_4875565]

Well things are working out prettty much as I expected. Our server's uber guld has lost 5 cities and now has 3, 2 coin cities and the sailing bonus, we have gained 2, yeah sure Koleton and a rep city. So now the city buff will be 10% and the uber guild will be unbeatable again. Maybe some of their rage will start to abate. We congratulated them on a great fight after our 2 wins just like we did on our 1187 losses over the past months, but there has been no response. Lots of sinkings on the sea, revenges, and attacking in the wild.

Some of the guys on the forum here who are just fuming; the smarter, better, hard working, big spending guys, might start calming down. A lot of us would love it if they quit. We were hoping they would get bored with winning everything so easily and guit for a log time now. Some did, not enough.

They can also quit making alts, something they seem to accuse the crappy, stupid, lazy, free loading players like me and my guild of doing. We don't have any new alts that I'm aware of. Last night in GW fighting against the super guild, I fought the usual big hitters, most who have jumped from other guilds recently to cash in on the big guilds advantages, but also about 15 players I've never heard of. Before we used to have 2 or 3 opponents against our 20-25, now we have Big Toe, Little Toe, Five Toe, No Toes, Ingrown Toe, Crooked Toe.

As you can tell I resent being called stupid, lazy, cheap. My problem is I have a full time job, managing millions of dollars worth of construction. It definitely eats into my tynon time. I picked my server so I can play Cerb in the morning, can only do Baal on weekends, always miss Ragnorak, sometimes miss GW and even all evening becuase of overtime. No problem I don't expect Tynon to make it even for me so I use money. I have to wonder about some of these guys that are on 24 hours a day and spend lots of money though, maybe they play at work, daddy's credit card? No matter. Some of the guys in my guild are older and sick, they play lots but they don't have money.

But I digress. Don't worry you superior, smarter, harder working, big spending guys. Everything is working out. Soon you will have all 3 coin cities and the pirate city and everything will be happy happy again. Unfortunately some of the smaller quilds will be feeling better about the game. Sorry about that.

[scot_202809]

Moving forward, let's discuss the etymology of the actual problem that created this SNAFU.

In programming or any professional project development, dev teams are typically tasked with discovering the essence of a problem, in order to provide a proper and fitting solution. Clearly, this pre-examination of the root cause of the initial issue has not been performed with much due diligence. Here now, for the point of demonstration, let us take a look at how the beginnings of the complaint process began some time ago.

Let's use two fictional player player names: SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, a real-life boyfriend and girlfriend who enjoy playing online games such as Tynon. Unfortunately for the couple, their overall demeanor, bad attitudes, insulting behavior and foul language has driven them from one guild to the next, until they are finally relegated to either starting their own guild or relying on a smaller guild who is desperate for players.

Because they have found a home in a guild with other similar less-popular players who are literally social outcasts due to their erratic / snide / hateful behavior, the small guild has a serious lack of guild funds. This in turn has the direct effect of not allowing the guild to grow as quickly as it would like to, thus limiting the amount of cities the guild can develop in their guild hall. Lack of players = lack of funds = lack of cities. It's very simple math, and quite easy to understand how it happens. You treat people like crap, and you are bound to upset enough of them that the decent guilds won't have anything to do with our fictional couple, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313.

Fast-forward to Guild War time. "We can't win against these bigger guilds," they say. "They have all the bigger players and all of the cities. They just take all the new cities right away, too. We can't even get one!"

Upon further examination, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 and most of their fellow guild members have not been as active in playing Tynon as they could have been. Additionally, few of their guild members, if any, have spent a dime on the game in order to strengthen their heroes and accounts in general. They are the typical lazy loudmouths who tend to ruin every game they participate in, both in real life and in the virtual world. They want the world to hand them out a 'freebie', rather than actually work hard for something they achieve on their own. These are the exact same type of lame losers in real life who don't have a job but do have EBT cards to buy cigarettes, booze, drugs and lingerie while the rest of us work very hard to make a living and support the idle idiots too.

SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 Decide to send in complaint forms using lots of alt accounts that they have, which of course, is a direct violation of Tynon rules, to have more than one account. SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 don't care, they did the exact same thing in Evony until they ruined the entire game for everyone. The devs receive dozens of complaint mails about 'how unfair' guild war is and decide their must be a real issue here to fix. The real problem, however, exists because the devs didn't dig deep enough into examining this actual issue, that of the lazy, non-paying, non-playing account holders who would rather cheat the system than work hard to build and achieve excellence.

Thus endeth the parable of SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, two very lazy whining complainers who have now twisted the devs around their little fingers. Compounded by dozens of other players who also have dozens more of these tiny, new, no-nothing alt accounts, and you have cropped up a plague of locusts that can easily mow down strong players who have worked hard and spent lots of money on this game.

You want to stop this nonsense immediately? Ban all alt accounts right now. Do it today. BOOM. Problem #1 solved. Your complaints decrease exponentially and these tiny alts and tiny new guilds cannot cheat their way to victory at GW.

[mattp169]

Moving forward, let's discuss the etymology of the actual problem that created this SNAFU.

In programming or any professional project development, dev teams are typically tasked with discovering the essence of a problem, in order to provide a proper and fitting solution. Clearly, this pre-examination of the root cause of the initial issue has not been performed with much due diligence. Here now, for the point of demonstration, let us take a look at how the beginnings of the complaint process began some time ago.

Let's use two fictional player player names: SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, a real-life boyfriend and girlfriend who enjoy playing online games such as Tynon. Unfortunately for the couple, their overall demeanor, bad attitudes, insulting behavior and foul language has driven them from one guild to the next, until they are finally relegated to either starting their own guild or relying on a smaller guild who is desperate for players.

Because they have found a home in a guild with other similar less-popular players who are literally social outcasts due to their erratic / snide / hateful behavior, the small guild has a serious lack of guild funds. This in turn has the direct effect of not allowing the guild to grow as quickly as it would like to, thus limiting the amount of cities the guild can develop in their guild hall. Lack of players = lack of funds = lack of cities. It's very simple math, and quite easy to understand how it happens. You treat people like crap, and you are bound to upset enough of them that the decent guilds won't have anything to do with our fictional couple, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313.

Fast-forward to Guild War time. "We can't win against these bigger guilds," they say. "They have all the bigger players and all of the cities. They just take all the new cities right away, too. We can't even get one!"

Upon further examination, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 and most of their fellow guild members have not been as active in playing Tynon as they could have been. Additionally, few of their guild members, if any, have spent a dime on the game in order to strengthen their heroes and accounts in general. They are the typical lazy loudmouths who tend to ruin every game they participate in, both in real life and in the virtual world. They want the world to hand them out a 'freebie', rather than actually work hard for something they achieve on their own. These are the exact same type of lame losers in real life who don't have a job but do have EBT cards to buy cigarettes, booze, drugs and lingerie while the rest of us work very hard to make a living and support the idle idiots too.

SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 Decide to send in complaint forms using lots of alt accounts that they have, which of course, is a direct violation of Tynon rules, to have more than one account. SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 don't care, they did the exact same thing in Evony until they ruined the entire game for everyone. The devs receive dozens of complaint mails about 'how unfair' guild war is and decide their must be a real issue here to fix. The real problem, however, exists because the devs didn't dig deep enough into examining this actual issue, that of the lazy, non-paying, non-playing account holders who would rather cheat the system than work hard to build and achieve excellence.

Thus endeth the parable of SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, two very lazy whining complainers who have now twisted the devs around their little fingers. Compounded by dozens of other players who also have dozens more of these tiny, new, no-nothing alt accounts, and you have cropped up a plague of locusts that can easily mow down strong players who have worked hard and spent lots of money on this game.

You want to stop this nonsense immediately? Ban all alt accounts right now. Do it today. BOOM. Problem #1 solved. Your complaints decrease exponentially and these tiny alts and tiny new guilds cannot cheat their way to victory at GW.

Man you got a slanted view.
I would argue that this situation can and does occur, but there are many other situations that dont even come close to resembling this post - that bring people to complain about gwf. Gwf was changed 2 months from live launch due to complaints. In that matter of time your situation is unlikely.

SO while this is one situation there are plenty of other hard working smaller guilds who feel that guildwars is slanted and wanted some way to rebalance it, because lets admit it, the way it was, was extremely lopsided. I still think its lopsided on many levels. BUt it was a good try on the devs part, but i think the math needs tweaked a little to make more people happy

[TrueGod]

Moving forward, let's discuss the etymology of the actual problem that created this SNAFU.

In programming or any professional project development, dev teams are typically tasked with discovering the essence of a problem, in order to provide a proper and fitting solution. Clearly, this pre-examination of the root cause of the initial issue has not been performed with much due diligence. Here now, for the point of demonstration, let us take a look at how the beginnings of the complaint process began some time ago.

Let's use two fictional player player names: SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, a real-life boyfriend and girlfriend who enjoy playing online games such as Tynon. Unfortunately for the couple, their overall demeanor, bad attitudes, insulting behavior and foul language has driven them from one guild to the next, until they are finally relegated to either starting their own guild or relying on a smaller guild who is desperate for players.

Because they have found a home in a guild with other similar less-popular players who are literally social outcasts due to their erratic / snide / hateful behavior, the small guild has a serious lack of guild funds. This in turn has the direct effect of not allowing the guild to grow as quickly as it would like to, thus limiting the amount of cities the guild can develop in their guild hall. Lack of players = lack of funds = lack of cities. It's very simple math, and quite easy to understand how it happens. You treat people like crap, and you are bound to upset enough of them that the decent guilds won't have anything to do with our fictional couple, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313.

Fast-forward to Guild War time. "We can't win against these bigger guilds," they say. "They have all the bigger players and all of the cities. They just take all the new cities right away, too. We can't even get one!"

Upon further examination, SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 and most of their fellow guild members have not been as active in playing Tynon as they could have been. Additionally, few of their guild members, if any, have spent a dime on the game in order to strengthen their heroes and accounts in general. They are the typical lazy loudmouths who tend to ruin every game they participate in, both in real life and in the virtual world. They want the world to hand them out a 'freebie', rather than actually work hard for something they achieve on their own. These are the exact same type of lame losers in real life who don't have a job but do have EBT cards to buy cigarettes, booze, drugs and lingerie while the rest of us work very hard to make a living and support the idle idiots too.

SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 Decide to send in complaint forms using lots of alt accounts that they have, which of course, is a direct violation of Tynon rules, to have more than one account. SolarEclypse and Deuce1313 don't care, they did the exact same thing in Evony until they ruined the entire game for everyone. The devs receive dozens of complaint mails about 'how unfair' guild war is and decide their must be a real issue here to fix. The real problem, however, exists because the devs didn't dig deep enough into examining this actual issue, that of the lazy, non-paying, non-playing account holders who would rather cheat the system than work hard to build and achieve excellence.

Thus endeth the parable of SolarEclypse and Deuce1313, two very lazy whining complainers who have now twisted the devs around their little fingers. Compounded by dozens of other players who also have dozens more of these tiny, new, no-nothing alt accounts, and you have cropped up a plague of locusts that can easily mow down strong players who have worked hard and spent lots of money on this game.

You want to stop this nonsense immediately? Ban all alt accounts right now. Do it today. BOOM. Problem #1 solved. Your complaints decrease exponentially and these tiny alts and tiny new guilds cannot cheat their way to victory at GW.

Well said !!

[MisChief]

Wow - that is like right out of soap opera digest. Someone has too much time and quite an imagination. You can't distinguish "alts" and just instantly ban them all to solve this GW issue. Ridiculous.
Dawnseeker says they will not return to the old way. But the new way is not good, or there would not be this firestorm of discussion. Comparing the way servers 1-10 are set up, and the rest of the 3 realm servers and giving one blanket change to all is not fair. There may be other solutions, none which are fast or easy, but need to be looked at, not just the alt part of this equation.

To me the city buff % and the -5 and -10 need readdressing, and there are many good suggestions in these threads, so I won't offer more here. That is the most fair and quickest solution.

[patrick.quenga_1715725]

is anyone else having issues with losing to people much lower power and losing cities? we lost 2 cities to guilds with less than 80% of our power at those cities...a 3 mil took out a 69mil by himself. looking for others with the same issue (we were server 106)

You don't know the half of it bro. We have guilds that haven't invested any money in the game, or very minimal to what my friends in guild have, including myself. I currently have about 108mil power and I lost to a guy, first fight in GW that has about 27mil power. My guys are all built up well, runed well, and chips are very high. I'm one of the tops on my server, yet, these smaller guilds are overpowering us now because of durability loss from each fight, and because we own more than three cities.

Many in my guild have already said they are going to leave if they don't see changes back by the end of this month. I, myself, am going to leave too. It's crazy, we put all the time, effort, and money into the game, and because we teamed up (the spenders, if you will) we lose out. Just because we're powerful and spent money on the game. Totally a waste now, everything went to waste.

[patrick.quenga_1715725]

the new system is easy
for every city you own, and by city i mean the actual cities like jengu birch mist etc
your opponent gets a 5% power bonus

so thats part 1 of the change

part 2 is this
instead of losing 1 durability after every fight
you lose 5 if you win and 10 if you lose

This lets a guild at say level 7 build up 50 alts at 10k power and beat the uber guild
ITS HILARIOUS

We will all get the hang of it shortly and it will be back to being as boring as ever

Exactly, it's stupid, totally stupid. It puts the ones that built over time and dropped money in the game, last. All a guild has to do is build a massive amount of alt toons, send them in first, over and over, and then move in with your main force. It's totally worthless now to drop money into the game, because it will get you no where. I wonder where Tynon came up with this strategy...I know a few that have already left, and if things don't change in a week or so, a few more of my guild is leaving and I'm going to cut out. It's freak'n stupid. Punish the ones that put money and time into the game, and give the lowbies that never put anything into the game an upper hand. Great...just great...

[patrick.quenga_1715725]

What guild wars were you watching? I'm part of an ubber guild and have the 4th most power on our server and we lost 2 cities and I was beaten by a 16 mil person? That's not balanced. That's far from it. We also have a guy that is almost 200 mil power and he was even beaten down.

I feel ya bro. I have the most power on my server, and I was dropped by a 20mil guy. I couldn't believe it. We OWNED all the cities, but not anymore. It's bogus. The guys that spend are being beat by guilds that have massive lvl 5 alts, sending them in over and over, then come in with their main guys and defeat us with out even blinking. Did I mention their main guys have like 20mil power and I have over 120mil power...lol

[lugnut_fxi_6829524]

So far I have seen 2 vip 6+ players quit on my server, another 4 are on the verge of quitting and to be honest if them 4 players quit most of the Guild will quit also because it is them 4 players that are keeping the guild together so all together we will lose 10-24 players from just one guild, that will just be the start of what we call the fallout effect. Its a shame I have seen so many Fails from management in many companys by them completely revamping something to fix that was not broken instead of just giving it little tweaks. If you have a car that has a ding in the door you fix the door not pull the engine. I have seen so many people on here saying its so boring to do GW because it is so easy but I have seen more players who are upset with the major fix to the point of quitting. I would have liked to see a Cross server GW tournty before seeing this change go into effect. Don't you think it would be fun to watch the server 1 top guild go vs server 3 top guild?