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Thread: What does predetermined really mean

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  1. #1
    Quote Originally Posted by jweb_4_8938282 View Post
    Tynon is a textbook example of rigged games.

    To Andy:
    If the outcome is decided before you "play" that is a textbook definition of rigged.
    The INTENT is obvious since the player has NO CHOICE in the tavern.
    Three Card Monty is a rigged game. The slight of hand by the dealer is intended to defraud.
    You don't see the Tavern as rigged because you can't detect the slight of hand. Or refuse to.
    You have previously admitted that it is "weighted" towards certain outcomes. THAT MEANS IT'S RIGGED.
    Yes, I know that other games do the same thing. So what?
    Why not have the Tavern be TRULY our choice? Why would that be a bad thing?
    The intent of the devs is to get people to spend more cash/gems to get a better outcome. Do you deny that too?
    But what if the Tavern WAS our choice? Would more people stay and eventually pay?
    We don't know do we? Why not find out? Why don't you ask the devs to make the Tavern a REAL game? Not a rigged one.

    Gorgon
    Rigged has the connotation that there is gambling going on, and that you are gambling against the house (I guess that would be us) and that we misrepresented the odds of you winning. None of these things are true, so the game is not "rigged."
    Nathan Seltzer
    uCool Community Manager

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Rigged has the connotation that there is gambling going on, and that you are gambling against the house (I guess that would be us) and that we misrepresented the odds of you winning. None of these things are true, so the game is not "rigged."
    "The house" lol,is it rigged?Your fate is set.Can you change it?yes,play the house lol
    Originally Posted by Boroeast
    We have informed the community manager about this issue. He should get back to us with an answer soon.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Rigged has the connotation that there is gambling going on, and that you are gambling against the house (I guess that would be us) and that we misrepresented the odds of you winning. None of these things are true, so the game is not "rigged."
    Wrong, because you guys INDEED do misrepresent the actual odds of getting an item. Heavens Tavern being the main example. In reality, seeing a gold and a purple in a 5 card draw would lead you to think that you have a 40% chance of getting either of those two good cards. When in reality that is the furthest from the truth. If anything its more like 1% chance, if that. Hell if theres a purple and a gold in a 5 card draw and I utilize both gem turnovers, 99% of the time its NEITHER of those cards. So in actuality those good cards are just there to lead players on who dont know any better. Again misleading.

    Guild chest rewards, misleading. Quest rewards, misleading. Everything about the game is misleading from the WAY its represented. Only those of us who understand the mechanics behind the game understand not to be sucked in by your misleading tactics...but in the end that doesnt change the fact that they're misleading. You cant compare it to casino games because there is no false chance of getting the card you want in a casino game, if theres three cards down you have a 33% chance of getting the one you want.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpledrank_6263329 View Post
    Wrong, because you guys INDEED do misrepresent the actual odds of getting an item. Heavens Tavern being the main example. In reality, seeing a gold and a purple in a 5 card draw would lead you to think that you have a 40% chance of getting either of those two good cards. When in reality that is the furthest from the truth. If anything its more like 1% chance, if that. Hell if theres a purple and a gold in a 5 card draw and I utilize both gem turnovers, 99% of the time its NEITHER of those cards. So in actuality those good cards are just there to lead players on who dont know any better. Again misleading.

    Guild chest rewards, misleading. Quest rewards, misleading. Everything about the game is misleading from the WAY its represented. Only those of us who understand the mechanics behind the game understand not to be sucked in by your misleading tactics...but in the end that doesnt change the fact that they're misleading. You cant compare it to casino games because there is no false chance of getting the card you want in a casino game, if theres three cards down you have a 33% chance of getting the one you want.

    See heres the thing with tavern.
    you say its misleading because you say there should be a equal chance of drawing any of the 5 cards shown. You cant prove one way or the other if that is true. We all speculate that it is not, but cant prove it.

    Take a bag. Put 4 black rocks in it and 1 red one. You have a 20% chance to get the red right.

    take a rock out. its black. but the rock back in and try again. you get a black again. do it again and again and again. you could easily do 20 pulls of all black or 20 pulls of all red. You are unlikely going to do 20 straight pulls of all red, but 20 straight pulls of all all black is likely.

    So youd have to prove that the software is designed to not give a equal chance of drawing one of the 5 cards shown and the only way you could do that is to see the code. Because theorectical probability and statistical probability will rarely ever match up you cant used the observed data to prove it.

    The observation that its no where near an equal chance and there for its misleading and therefore rigged is akin to saying watching some one flipping a coin 100 times and seeing it come up heads 75 times and claiming the coin is rigged.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattp169 View Post
    See heres the thing with tavern.
    you say its misleading because you say there should be a equal chance of drawing any of the 5 cards shown. You cant prove one way or the other if that is true. We all speculate that it is not, but cant prove it.

    Take a bag. Put 4 black rocks in it and 1 red one. You have a 20% chance to get the red right.

    take a rock out. its black. but the rock back in and try again. you get a black again. do it again and again and again. you could easily do 20 pulls of all black or 20 pulls of all red. You are unlikely going to do 20 straight pulls of all red, but 20 straight pulls of all all black is likely.

    So youd have to prove that the software is designed to not give a equal chance of drawing one of the 5 cards shown and the only way you could do that is to see the code. Because theorectical probability and statistical probability will rarely ever match up you cant used the observed data to prove it.

    The observation that its no where near an equal chance and there for its misleading and therefore rigged is akin to saying watching some one flipping a coin 100 times and seeing it come up heads 75 times and claiming the coin is rigged.
    The problem with your argument is that these things have been used thousands of times - probably more like 100s of thousands. Given the amount of times the cards have been shuffled and turned, if th eodds were actually 1 in 5, it would be somewhere close to that given the number of times it's been done. And, from being on 2 different servers, I can tell you it isn't anywhere near 1 in 5.

    That said, I totally understand the cards are only a representation of what's there - that they don't actually represent the odds. But, some wouldn't know that - at least not at first. That's what some are upset about. But, every game I've played of this sort does the same thing, so I don't see a real problem, but can understand those that do.

  6. #6
    Forum Moderator Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purpledrank_6263329 View Post
    Wrong, because you guys INDEED do misrepresent the actual odds of getting an item. Heavens Tavern being the main example. In reality, seeing a gold and a purple in a 5 card draw would lead you to think that you have a 40% chance of getting either of those two good cards. When in reality that is the furthest from the truth. If anything its more like 1% chance, if that. Hell if theres a purple and a gold in a 5 card draw and I utilize both gem turnovers, 99% of the time its NEITHER of those cards. So in actuality those good cards are just there to lead players on who dont know any better. Again misleading.

    Guild chest rewards, misleading. Quest rewards, misleading. Everything about the game is misleading from the WAY its represented. Only those of us who understand the mechanics behind the game understand not to be sucked in by your misleading tactics...but in the end that doesnt change the fact that they're misleading. You cant compare it to casino games because there is no false chance of getting the card you want in a casino game, if theres three cards down you have a 33% chance of getting the one you want.
    There is no misrepresentation. It is documented in the wiki that the odds are not 20%. http://tynon.wikia.com/wiki/Heaven_Tavern
    The opinions expressed on this post are my own as a player, not as a Moderator.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    There is no misrepresentation. It is documented in the wiki that the odds are not 20%. http://tynon.wikia.com/wiki/Heaven_Tavern
    Then why show the heros? I havent checked the wiki and I ALREADY know this, whats to think your typical player in this game will have checked a Wiki, let alone that exact page? Just because its in the fine print somewhere doesnt mean its not being misrepresented. Last I checked the Wiki is made by the playerbase also, so not like uCool is going out of their way to let the entire playerbase know this.

  8. #8
    Forum Moderator Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockecole_5393515 View Post
    Then why show the heros? I havent checked the wiki and I ALREADY know this, whats to think your typical player in this game will have checked a Wiki, let alone that exact page? Just because its in the fine print somewhere doesnt mean its not being misrepresented. Last I checked the Wiki is made by the playerbase also, so not like uCool is going out of their way to let the entire playerbase know this.
    The bottom line is that the game works the way it is intended to work. Since there is no documentation players assume they know how it is supposed to work and most of the time that assumption is wrong.

    I can see that there is no way to convince you otherwise. If you thing that the game is taking advantage of the players then stop playing. No one is forcing you to play the game.
    The opinions expressed on this post are my own as a player, not as a Moderator.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The bottom line is that the game works the way it is intended to work. Since there is no documentation players assume they know how it is supposed to work and most of the time that assumption is wrong.

    I can see that there is no way to convince you otherwise. If you thing that the game is taking advantage of the players then stop playing. No one is forcing you to play the game.
    It is. Entirely. Am I fortunate to know better? Yes. It also doesnt effect my enjoyment, in fact I enjoy the fact that I have an edge on most aspects of the game compared to your typical player, but it doesnt change the fact that the devs can say theyre not misleading players, when in fact, if the game is taken the way it is represented, they most definitely are.\

    (sorry about the different names....I gotta start logging in.)

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