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Thread: Banish Cap - Yes another thread

  1. #141
    Ironheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattp169 View Post
    There are so many BETTER ways to handle the problem. Wait what is the problem that required the cap to be put in place?
    Was it small population servers getting more coins then larger population servers.
    was it some players getting too much form banish so the devs wanted to slow us down.?
    Was it theres just too many players on some servers and they want some one those people to go to new servers and spend more money?

    Im not really sure why the cap is in place. Because no reason except driving players to quit or move to new servers fits the current cap model. SO if there were other reasons, the plan needs rethought out

    Many people, including Dawn, have already stated the obvious: Banish rewards have grown way too quickly in relation to the rest of the game. The population of the server can not be factored into this assessment. If there is a wide population disparity between servers, that would be a separate issue that needs to be addressed.
    Last edited by Rocco; 05-06-2014 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #142
    Lightbringer ChickenWing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattp169 View Post
    There are so many BETTER ways to handle the problem. Wait what is the problem that required the cap to be put in place?
    Was it small population servers getting more coins then larger population servers.
    was it some players getting too much form banish so the devs wanted to slow us down.?
    Was it theres just too many players on some servers and they want some one those people to go to new servers and spend more money?

    Im not really sure why the cap is in place. Because no reason except driving players to quit or move to new servers fits the current cap model. SO if there were other reasons, the plan needs rethought out
    Well I think that a certain balance is required because there is CWF. Even though Blayd dominates, it's still fun to compete with other players. Blayd hasn't ruined my CWF, and he hasn't ruined most people's. I don't dream of being number 1, but I like challenging new players. To make it fair, the rewards have to be similar among servers. But they aren't. Deucalion really stated it more clearly than you did. I really understood your issue when he posted this, although you have been posting about this for weeks. Sometimes, making concise statements helps get your message accross

    The current cap does seem to punish high population servers. I agree that players' growth should be controlled, but the current way to deal with it doesn't make sense.

    I would like to hear Dawn's justification as to why some players should get 100M coins from banish whereas others cannot possibly get more than 5M.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco View Post
    Many people, including Dawn, have already stated the obvious: Banish rewards have grown way too quickly in relation to the rest of the game. The population of the server can not be factored into this assessment. If there is a wide population disparity between servers, that would be a separate issue that needs to be addressed.
    Why cant server population be factored in? It very obviously can.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenWing View Post
    Well I think that a certain balance is required because there is CWF. Even though Blayd dominates, it's still fun to compete with other players. Blayd hasn't ruined my CWF, and he hasn't ruined most people's. I don't dream of being number 1, but I like challenging new players. To make it fair, the rewards have to be similar among servers. But they aren't. Deucalion really stated it more clearly than you did. I really understood your issue when he posted this, although you have been posting about this for weeks. Sometimes, making concise statements helps get your message accross

    The current cap does seem to punish high population servers. I agree that players' growth should be controlled, but the current way to deal with it doesn't make sense.

    I would like to hear Dawn's justification as to why some players should get 100M coins from banish whereas others cannot possibly get more than 5M.
    Honestly the situation is more complex then this thread has even described. There is a lot to it. Most will never see it, but those of who do see realize it. Apparently Dawn and the devs dont see it.

    I dont have an issue with the devs trying to slow down player growth because banish provides more income then they expected. The problem is the solution they implemented is horrible and only really hurts high population servers. It doesnt hurt blayd or LC - in fact it helps them.

    There is a much better way to regulate player income form banish, so income does not outpace development. But at the same time allows for significant income form banish at higher levels - because at high levels you need significant income to do even 1 upgrade. When it costs 23m coins to do one level of a spirit - getting 50-60m income from banish is not absurd. But the only way to get that much under the current system is to be on a very low population server

    SO setting the coin and credit / damage ration to be alot of damage for a few coins and credits - then adding in the city buffs,ra bonus and guild techs to those numbers along with a possible level multiplier would do just that .
    Then setting banish to run like rag where everyone has a 1 min max round and has the same amount of rounds and the boss has infinite HP allows this to effect everyone across every server. It would probably lower my income from banish at first as well as most top players. But increase the income of smaller players. This increases competition, and balances this event across all servers regardless of server population

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattp169 View Post
    Why cant server population be factored in? It very obviously can.
    Because that is a separate issue to deal with. If that is the root of the problem (and many other problems), you fix the root of the problem, not the individual symptoms.

    Simply put, they looked at the size of the pot of a 6.25b banish and decided it was too big. You're suggesting that they need to look at how the pot distribution varies from server to server.

    Your first post on this was a while back when the caps were not yet in place. You wanted to know if the 6.25b banish was available because there was a realm on your server that was close and some people were considering switching realms to achieve the upgrade if it was available. It is understandable because someone making 50m in 1.25b banish will make about 250m in the next larger one. Someone making 30m will make 150m. But moving realms for this is an undesirable side effect.

  5. #145
    Judgment Revan's Avatar
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    I'm just gonna throw this out there.

    When it costs 20 million + coins to upgrade gear, it is going to take days for the gear to finish even on thorsday. If you want to spend gems clearing the cooldowns, that's your choice. If you want to spend coins on runes that's you choice.

    10% damage in banish twice a day, is 20 million coins
    14 million+ coins from philosopher's stone each day (with city buffs)
    approx. 10 million from GW
    10 million or so from 3 labyrinths a day scoring over 600 each time
    1.5 million or so from the free shrine use
    over 5 million from claiming guild benefits

    That's what... 50 million coins a day something like that

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revan View Post
    I'm just gonna throw this out there.

    When it costs 20 million + coins to upgrade gear, it is going to take days for the gear to finish even on thorsday. If you want to spend gems clearing the cooldowns, that's your choice. If you want to spend coins on runes that's you choice.

    10% damage in banish twice a day, is 20 million coins
    14 million+ coins from philosopher's stone each day (with city buffs)
    approx. 10 million from GW
    10 million or so from 3 labyrinths a day scoring over 600 each time
    1.5 million or so from the free shrine use
    over 5 million from claiming guild benefits

    That's what... 50 million coins a day something like that
    Ok great, that factors to about 350 mil coins per week, seems like a lot, but then think of this. to get a single rune to lvl 12 costs 500 mil coins, at the current number of rune sets need (7) it will take 31.5 billion coins to take all runes to level 12. then factor in the several billion coins for gear, the several billion coins for mounts and all of the sudden that 350 mil starts to seem pretty small. personally I like chickens idea, if we really want to cap it, cap it individually based on player size. Make it so that an individual player cannot achieve more than 10% of the total coins available for the banish size. For 50 mil boss, 500k coins, for a 6.25 bil boss 62.5 mil. seems fair to me. it we make it to the 31.5 bil, then I think it's 300 mil, but I'd probably find it taking quite awhile to get to that point.

  7. #147
    The problem with banish is that you get more gold/credits/rep when LESS people attend the banish event. Many times people will jump realms to a weaker realm just to rake in huge gains from banish and not share the gains with as many players. This is why its unfair to populated servers, because players on low population servers are able to get a much larger chunk of the reward pot than those on high population servers that have to share the pot with a large group.

    The problem isn't even the banish cap, since the banish cap doesn't even fix the problem of players getting a huge portion of the banish rewards on smaller servers compared to larger ones. You'd have a bigger pot size without a cap, but smaller servers would still have that one dude that does 90% of the damage to 1.25mil cerb/baal and raking in huge gains. That is the crux of the problem imo. Where as most other gains scale by level, banish scales by damage dealt... and since the boss has a finite life total, damage dealt is thereby relative to the power of other players in your realm. So if you have stronger players in your realm, you will do less damage and gain less from cerb/baal. This gives an inherent advantage to that one guy with full 6 light sets in a realm where no one else has passed guardian gear.
    Last edited by perawind_8762856; 05-06-2014 at 08:46 PM.

  8. #148
    Judgment Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrthCaedus View Post
    Ok great, that factors to about 350 mil coins per week, seems like a lot, but then think of this. to get a single rune to lvl 12 costs 500 mil coins, at the current number of rune sets need (7) it will take 31.5 billion coins to take all runes to level 12. then factor in the several billion coins for gear, the several billion coins for mounts and all of the sudden that 350 mil starts to seem pretty small. personally I like chickens idea, if we really want to cap it, cap it individually based on player size. Make it so that an individual player cannot achieve more than 10% of the total coins available for the banish size. For 50 mil boss, 500k coins, for a 6.25 bil boss 62.5 mil. seems fair to me. it we make it to the 31.5 bil, then I think it's 300 mil, but I'd probably find it taking quite awhile to get to that point.
    Doesn't seem too far out of line with the 3.8 million rep for Marshal.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by perawind_8762856 View Post
    The problem with banish is that you get more gold/credits/rep when LESS people attend the banish event. Many times people will jump realms to a weaker realm just to rake in huge gains from banish and not share the gains with as many players. This is why its unfair to populated servers, because players on low population servers are able to get a much larger chunk of the reward pot than those on high population servers that have to share the pot with a large group.

    The problem isn't even the banish cap, since the banish cap doesn't even fix the problem of players getting a huge portion of the banish rewards on smaller servers compared to larger ones. You'd have a bigger pot size without a cap, but smaller servers would still have that one dude that does 90% of the damage to 1.25mil cerb/baal and raking in huge gains. That is the crux of the problem imo. Where as most other gains scale by level, banish scales by damage dealt... and since the boss has a finite life total, damage dealt is thereby relative to the power of other players in your realm. So if you have stronger players in your realm, you will do less damage and gain less from cerb/baal. This gives an inherent advantage to that one guy with full 6 light sets in a realm where no one else has passed guardian gear.
    YOur are very close to on target

    But lets use that screen shot i posted a day or two ago. That player can not get the 6.25b banish nor solo it. SO if a populated server like 1 could have an uncapped 6,25b and she/he can only do 99% of an uncapped 1.25b then it equals out in how much he gets versus how much the populated servers get. It will never be equal or fair under the current system with or without the cap. But the cap favors the small population severs and punishes the high population servers

  10. #150
    Lightbringer ChickenWing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco View Post
    Simply put, they looked at the size of the pot of a 6.25b banish and decided it was too big. You're suggesting that they need to look at how the pot distribution varies from server to server.
    Why was the pot too big? Because individual players would get too much? Or because several players together would get too much?

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